From Nobody at spamcop.net  Tue May  3 10:46:26 2005
From: Nobody at spamcop.net (CFA)
Date: Tue May  3 11:50:08 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Recommendations for web page forms
References: <d4hgn7$rqd$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d586cd$pjc$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Miss Betsy" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d4hgn7$rqd$1@news.spamcop.net...
>I have a friend who wants to establish a web site that would
> connect various people who are interested in a particular subject,
> but doesn't know about using secure forms or ways to prevent
> spiders from collecting email addresses.
>
> Are there any particular programs that are recommended by this
> group for web forms or ways to encode mailto addresses?
>
> Miss Betsy
>
>
>

I have had a personal web site for several years, and so far none of my 
contact addresses have been found by spiders.  My web host doesn't support 
CGI, so I've had to make do with the basics.  Here's what I do:

I use Photoshop to make a simple graphic of my e-mail address.  This is 
displayed on the web page, so anyone who visits the page can see my address. 
Then I use a link encoding program to JavaScript encode the address.  This 
goes in the head of the web page.  A link to the address is in the body of 
the page.

So in the head of the web page you have:

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
function link1(){
window.open('mai' + 'lto:' + '%48 with the rest of the e-mail address 
character codes (or whatever they are called)
}
</SCRIPT>

and in the body of the page you have:

<a href="javascript:link1()"><img src="graphicofyouraddress.gif"></a>

This link displays the graphic of your e-mail address and refers to your 
encoded address in the head of the page.

If someone visiting your web page has JavaScript turned off, he won't be 
able to click on your graphic to send you e-mail, but at least he can still 
see your e-mail address in the graphic.

The web site where I got the free link encoder no longer exists, but if 
you'll write to me, I'll send it to you.

eo2n3ji02@sneakemail.com

(And when this address starts getting spam, I will delete it, so it won't 
last forever.)

I hope I explained this so that you can understand.  I'm not very good with 
the terminology.  I just know that this system works for me.  So far.

I also add one more level of protection by using the free e-mail forwarding 
service provided by my web host.  I create an e-mail address to display on 
the web page, make a graphic of it, and encode it like I described.  Mail 
sent to that address @mywebsitedomainname is forwarded to my real e-mail 
address.  If that address ever starts getting spam, I will change it and 
make a new graphic.  But so far it's still clean.

CFA



From nospam at dev.null  Wed May  4 04:29:14 2005
From: nospam at dev.null (Anty Spam)
Date: Tue May  3 21:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Epson C82 printers
References: <d4336v$c4d$1@news.spamcop.net> <d43q5h$p5p$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d59887$bf6$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Ilgaz" <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:d43q5h$p5p$1@news.spamcop.net...
> On 2005-04-19 17:05:04 +0300, "Frog Prince" <devnull@spamcop.net> said:
>
...snip....
> >
> > Looking at a Canon iP5000 (~$150 net) as it uses a *lot* less ink.  A
quick
> > check of the prices suggest that Canon replacement parts may be much
less
> > expensive than Epson.
>
> I got i250 here, using on OS X, its a $50 printer. Excellent results
> but can'T say same for ink, well ink carts are really small.
>
> Ilgaz
>

Got i320. Beautiful after a Lexmark.  Small carts don't worry too much, buy
them as 3 to 4 black and 3 to 4 clour at a time at the price. Never measured
real pages per tank, but suits me better than the Lexmark that dried up the
whole time making it unaffordable.

Cheers

E




From jr70 at blackhole.invalid  Wed May  4 09:16:19 2005
From: jr70 at blackhole.invalid (John Richards)
Date: Wed May  4 11:20:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
Message-ID: <d5ap04$39s$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message news:oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> 
> My correspondent says he sends email with something called "Explorer".

No such animal. Why don't you look in the headers of one of his
messages to see what he really is using? There should be a line
that starts out with "X-Mailer:".

-- 
John Richards
From asterix at no_where.net  Wed May  4 23:59:31 2005
From: asterix at no_where.net (Asterix)
Date: Wed May  4 17:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <w1RKMlvCEhQx@eisner.encompasserve.org>
Message-ID: <1gw27th.13cvuj91epblbjN%asterix@no_where.net>

Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:

> 
> It should have been obvious from my question that I have no interest
> in using Microsoft Windows.  However, I have no desire to antagonize
> a customer who pays me money to do work that does not involve the use
> of Microsoft Windows.  He uses Microsoft Windows to send me orders
> and the like, and I am not about to jeopardize that relationship.

Of course - want my .sig ? <g>

-- 
I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines 
to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour
From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com  Wed May  4 22:13:38 2005
From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus)
Date: Wed May  4 17:15:06 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>

Anthony Edwards on 30/04/2005 wrote:

> but modern Linux distributions such as Ubuntu (the easiest Linux to
> install, ever) and SuSE (a close second) will run on pretty much any
> hardware that will run Windows.

A slight divergence from the thread, but, OK, Linux should work on my
hardware, but, how easy is it to get peripherals such as printers and
scanners working with it?  Do Epsom Printers and HP Scanners have Linux
compatible drivers?  What about all the software that I've *bought*
which I really don't want to ditch such as Paint Shop Pro that I use
often and has taken me some years to learn?

I'd really love to switch to an OS which I could use efficiently
instead of Windows which seems to take up more time fixing than using.

Rob
From Kilgallen at SpamCop.net  Wed May  4 17:30:34 2005
From: Kilgallen at SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)
Date: Wed May  4 17:35:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <w1RKMlvCEhQx@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<1gw27th.13cvuj91epblbjN%asterix@no_where.net>
Message-ID: <fnBNJIuOsU1K@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <1gw27th.13cvuj91epblbjN%asterix@no_where.net>, asterix@no_where.net (Asterix) writes:
> Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> It should have been obvious from my question that I have no interest
>> in using Microsoft Windows.  However, I have no desire to antagonize
>> a customer who pays me money to do work that does not involve the use
>> of Microsoft Windows.  He uses Microsoft Windows to send me orders
>> and the like, and I am not about to jeopardize that relationship.
> 
> Of course - want my .sig ? <g>
> 
> -- 
> I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines 
> to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour

No, I really would rather do other things for a living.

But if you are a Macintosh person, why is it a "."sig ?  :-)
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Thu May  5 00:31:30 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Wed May  4 17:35:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 4 May 2005 21:13:38 +0000 (UTC), Canopus coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> A slight divergence from the thread, but, OK, Linux should work on my
> hardware, but, how easy is it to get peripherals such as printers and
> scanners working with it?  Do Epsom Printers and HP Scanners have Linux
> compatible drivers?

Find out for yourself.

http://www.linuxprinting.org
http://www.sane-project.org

> What about all the software that I've *bought* which I really don't 
> want to ditch such as Paint Shop Pro that I use often and has taken me 
> some years to learn?

Heh - nobody forced you to pay for commercial software when there are 
perfectly good open source and free (as in speech and beer) solutions 
such as the GIMP (http://www.gimp.org) for which there happens to be a 
Windows version...

> I'd really love to switch to an OS which I could use efficiently
> instead of Windows which seems to take up more time fixing than using.

Take the jump. I did so about 5 years ago and haven't looked back since.

Start with something like Knoppix, which you can try as a live-CD before 
installing it so as to get the hang of things.

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

-- 
Steve

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Wed May  4 19:03:10 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Miss Betsy)
Date: Wed May  4 19:00:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Recommendations for web page forms
References: <d4hgn7$rqd$1@news.spamcop.net> <d586cd$pjc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5bk1n$hqa$1@news.spamcop.net>


"CFA" <Nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:d586cd$pjc$1@news.spamcop.net...
> "Miss Betsy" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:d4hgn7$rqd$1@news.spamcop.net...
> >I have a friend who wants to establish a web site that would
> > connect various people who are interested in a particular
subject,
> > but doesn't know about using secure forms or ways to prevent
> > spiders from collecting email addresses.
> >
> > Are there any particular programs that are recommended by this
> > group for web forms or ways to encode mailto addresses?
> >
> > Miss Betsy
> >
> >
> >
>
> I have had a personal web site for several years, and so far none
of my
> contact addresses have been found by spiders.  My web host
doesn't support
> CGI, so I've had to make do with the basics.  Here's what I do:
>
> I use Photoshop to make a simple graphic of my e-mail address.
This is
> displayed on the web page, so anyone who visits the page can see
my address.
> Then I use a link encoding program to JavaScript encode the
address.  This
> goes in the head of the web page.  A link to the address is in
the body of
> the page.
>
> So in the head of the web page you have:
>
> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
> function link1(){
> window.open('mai' + 'lto:' + '%48 with the rest of the e-mail
address
> character codes (or whatever they are called)
> }
> </SCRIPT>
>
> and in the body of the page you have:
>
> <a href="javascript:link1()"><img
src="graphicofyouraddress.gif"></a>
>
> This link displays the graphic of your e-mail address and refers
to your
> encoded address in the head of the page.
>
> If someone visiting your web page has JavaScript turned off, he
won't be
> able to click on your graphic to send you e-mail, but at least he
can still
> see your e-mail address in the graphic.
>
> The web site where I got the free link encoder no longer exists,
but if
> you'll write to me, I'll send it to you.
>
> eo2n3ji02@sneakemail.com
>
> (And when this address starts getting spam, I will delete it, so
it won't
> last forever.)
>
> I hope I explained this so that you can understand.  I'm not very
good with
> the terminology.  I just know that this system works for me.  So
far.
>
> I also add one more level of protection by using the free e-mail
forwarding
> service provided by my web host.  I create an e-mail address to
display on
> the web page, make a graphic of it, and encode it like I
described.  Mail
> sent to that address @mywebsitedomainname is forwarded to my real
e-mail
> address.  If that address ever starts getting spam, I will change
it and
> make a new graphic.  But so far it's still clean.
>
> CFA

Since I know almost nothing about making web pages, I have little
idea of why your idea works.  However, I will pass it on.  I think
I understand the concept.

Thanks
Miss Betsy


From zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com  Thu May  5 01:06:05 2005
From: zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com (John Zitterkopf)
Date: Thu May  5 03:10:07 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Procmail recipe no longer working... Any ideas?
Message-ID: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net>

I've been getting SPAM to a local address not published on the internet.

Header with my email and server changed to myemail@mylocalserver.com to
avoid more spam at this local server.

Return-Path: <KFBGW@artelco.com>
X-Original-To: myemail@mylocalserver.com
Delivered-To: myemail@mylocalserver.com
Received: from 200-233-183-078-xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br
(200-233-183-078-xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br [200.233.183.78])
	by mylocalserver.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 216AFEDEC4
	for <x>; Wed,  4 May 2005 18:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 129.231.214.4 by 200.233.183.78; Wed, 04 May 2005
23:20:00 -0300
Message-ID: <YMVR_____________OWDN@aisp.net>
From: "Hal Weaver" <KFBGW@artelco.com>
Reply-To: "Hal Weaver" <KFBGW@artelco.com>
To: x
Subject: We can sheep you disccounted errection mads feast
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 07:18:00 +0500
X-Mailer: AOL 93.0 for Windows US sub 637
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="--JLCAYZJNA02756EASLR"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-IP:198.98.52.149
Status: RO
I've been trying to trap these types of spammers using a procmail reciepe
that I thought I had working previously. But for some reason it no longer
works...
Can't figure out why...

The idea is that if I get email directly on this server without it going
through spamcop; I resend it for "filtering" by spamcop.

#forward any mail which hasn't been though spamcop to spamcop for filtering
:0 H
* -2^0
* 1^0 ^Delivered-To:.*myemail@mylocalserver\.com
* 1^0 !^Delivered-To:.*spamcop-net-zitt@spamcop\.net
# Avoid email loops
* 1^0 !^X-Loop:.*myemail@mylocalserver\.com
{
  :0
  { RULE="no Spamcop filtered mail" }
  :0c:   #Preserve a copy of the email
  noSpamcop.mail
  :0fwh  #Adjust some headers before forwarding
  | formail -A"X-Loop: myemail@mylocalserver\.com" \
            -A"X-From-Origin: ${FROM_}" \
            -i"Subject: $SUBJ_ (fwd)" \
            -A"X-Rule: $RULE"
  :0:
  ! zitt@spamcop.net
}

Anyone have any ideas what may be going wrong now?
Why isn't it working?

John
-- 
              EE's do it 'til it Hz 8-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~John D. Zitterkopf~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
zitt@zittware.com           http://www.zittware.com
_____________________________________________________________________
Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B)These email
address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my
permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will
result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for
repeats.


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Thu May  5 12:25:03 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Thu May  5 05:30:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe no longer working... Any ideas?
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd7jpjf.35g.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Thu, 5 May 2005 00:06:05 -0700, John Zitterkopf coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> I've been trying to trap these types of spammers using a procmail reciepe
> that I thought I had working previously. But for some reason it no longer
> works...

What about it no longer works? It doesn't forward to spamcop any more or 
it forwards everything? It forwards the wrong stuff?

One thing that might be a problem, however, is your formail command. The 
expressions used aren't regexes so there's no need to escape the period 
as in:

 | formail -A"X-Loop: myemail@mylocalserver\.com" \

This is sufficient:

 | formail -A"X-Loop: myemail@mylocalserver.com" \

On a side note, why don't you get SpamCop to pop your mail from your 
local account and you pop it, filtered, from SpamCop?

-- 
Steve

"I don't understand that attitude.  Don't we want email that has dancing
 bears, cute little videos, musical tunes, animated waving hands, sixty
 fonts, and looks like it's been done with crayolas? Good grief, man,
 think like a three year old!"
                                   -- Norm Reitzel discussing HTML email
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Thu May  5 11:18:02 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Pop)
Date: Thu May  5 10:20:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>

...
> Start with something like Knoppix, which you can try as a live-CD before
> installing it so as to get the hang of things.
>
> http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

Knoppix is a great way to go.  You can also pick up Open Office Suite, the 
replacement for MS Office, which actually is pretty good.  Open Office also 
will work on windows if you want to feel it out - and it's free - and seems 
pretty well behaved, though under windows I can get it to screw up.  I hear 
it's much better on Knoppix.  Lots of other free stuff too, being open 
source.

I tried to make the switch myself, but it turned out I used too many of the 
Office features that Knoppix just doesn't implement or implements in ways 
that won't match with my needs.
   I also hit a wall trying to find drivers for my soft modem, but if I 
really wanted KX, I'd buy an external.  I'm a fairly intense user, so it 
just wasn't going to work for me, but if your users are only using the 
"normal" 25% of Office abilities and such, it would be a great replacement!
   PSP I never did find a replacement for, and am still looking.  Gimp et al 
could do the things, but I never found an all in one so I only had one app 
for it all.  PSP does about everything I need.
   There were video codec problems, too, so at that point I decided I'd hit 
the point of diminishing returns and figured I'd wait a year or so and see 
what's up again at that time.
   For "normal" users though, it's a GREAT way to go!  Beware, in the 
beginning, there ARE lots of maintenance issues to work out, but once you 
get it going, it's pretty stable.  My son in Ct relies 100% on Linux.  To 
really make it dance though, you have to get techie with it; it's not a pure 
"user's" tool.  AFAIK there is NO turn-key Linux in the fashion of windows; 
after all, it is written and supported by volunteers and their organization, 
albeit they are very dedicated.
   I'll probaby get flamed for this, but, there are indications of some 
standards wars breaking out too.  I wouldn't back burner it, but I'd wait a 
year at least to see what's up.

Pop 


From m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl  Thu May  5 15:40:53 2005
From: m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl (Martijn Lievaart)
Date: Thu May  5 12:00:08 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <lrgpk2-jsh.ln1@news.rtij.nl>

On Wed, 04 May 2005 23:31:30 +0200, Steven Maesslein wrote:

> Take the jump. I did so about 5 years ago and haven't looked back since.

Go for it.
 
> Start with something like Knoppix, which you can try as a live-CD before 
> installing it so as to get the hang of things.
> 
> http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

I advice ubuntu (www.ubuntulinux.org), but either of those have live CD's
to get you started.

M4
-- 
Ah, the beauty of OSS. Hundreds of volunteers worldwide volunteering
their time inventing and implementing new, exciting ways for software
to suck. -- Toni Lassila in the Monastry

From jr70 at blackhole.invalid  Thu May  5 10:26:21 2005
From: jr70 at blackhole.invalid (John Richards)
Date: Thu May  5 12:30:19 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5dhfe$hgh$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Pop" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message news:d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net...
> ...
> I tried to make the switch myself, but it turned out I used too many of the 
> Office features that Knoppix just doesn't implement or implements in ways 
> that won't match with my needs.
>   I also hit a wall trying to find drivers for my soft modem, but if I 
> really wanted KX, I'd buy an external.  I'm a fairly intense user, so it 

I tried various Linux distros, and inevitably, either my modem, or my
printer, or my video card (or all three) weren't supported. So, I gave up
and went back to Windows XP.


> just wasn't going to work for me, but if your users are only using the 
> "normal" 25% of Office abilities and such, it would be a great replacement!
>   PSP I never did find a replacement for, and am still looking.  Gimp et al 
> could do the things, but I never found an all in one so I only had one app 
> for it all.  PSP does about everything I need.
>   There were video codec problems, too, so at that point I decided I'd hit 
> the point of diminishing returns and figured I'd wait a year or so and see 
> what's up again at that time.
>   For "normal" users though, it's a GREAT way to go!  Beware, in the 
> beginning, there ARE lots of maintenance issues to work out, but once you 
> get it going, it's pretty stable.  My son in Ct relies 100% on Linux.  To 
> really make it dance though, you have to get techie with it; it's not a pure 
> "user's" tool.  AFAIK there is NO turn-key Linux in the fashion of windows; 
> after all, it is written and supported by volunteers and their organization, 
> albeit they are very dedicated.
>   I'll probaby get flamed for this, but, there are indications of some 
> standards wars breaking out too.  I wouldn't back burner it, but I'd wait a 
> year at least to see what's up.

I totally agree. One needs to be a techie in order to make it work.
That limits it to a very small segment of the user population.
Bill Gates has nothing to worry about (yet).

-- 
John Richards
From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com  Thu May  5 19:41:48 2005
From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus)
Date: Thu May  5 14:45:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d5dpdc$liv$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein on 04/05/2005 wrote:

> On Wed, 4 May 2005 21:13:38 +0000 (UTC), Canopus coughed into 
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>:
> 
> > A slight divergence from the thread, but, OK, Linux should work on
> > my hardware, but, how easy is it to get peripherals such as
> > printers and scanners working with it?  Do Epsom Printers and HP
> > Scanners have Linux compatible drivers?
> 
> Find out for yourself.
> 
> http://www.linuxprinting.org
> http://www.sane-project.org
> 
> > What about all the software that I've bought which I really don't 
> > want to ditch such as Paint Shop Pro that I use often and has taken
> > me some years to learn?
> 
> Heh - nobody forced you to pay for commercial software when there are 
> perfectly good open source and free (as in speech and beer) solutions 
> such as the GIMP (http://www.gimp.org) for which there happens to be
> a Windows version...
> 
> > I'd really love to switch to an OS which I could use efficiently
> > instead of Windows which seems to take up more time fixing than
> > using.
> 
> Take the jump. I did so about 5 years ago and haven't looked back
> since.
> 
> Start with something like Knoppix, which you can try as a live-CD
> before installing it so as to get the hang of things.
> 
> http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

I've tried out the Knoppix dispro, I liked it although running
something like that after it's loaded into RAM only gives you an idea
of the system, I kept running out of memory if I tried to do anything
which needed a fair amount of RAM.

Looks like my Epsom Printer is OK for drivers, seems to be possible
issues with my scanner, but, it could work.  Not sure about my ADSL USB
modem, camera and mini disc player, will have to look into those.

I suppose I could make room on my second HD which I use for backups and
create a primary partition on it to try out Linux.

Rob
From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com  Thu May  5 19:47:25 2005
From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus)
Date: Thu May  5 14:50:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5dpns$lqv$1@news.spamcop.net>

Pop on 05/05/2005 wrote:

> Knoppix is a great way to go.  You can also pick up Open Office
> Suite, the replacement for MS Office, which actually is pretty good.
> Open Office also will work on windows if you want to feel it out -
> and it's free - and seems pretty well behaved, though under windows I
> can get it to screw up.  I hear it's much better on Knoppix.  Lots of
> other free stuff too, being open source.
> 
> I tried to make the switch myself, but it turned out I used too many
> of the Office features that Knoppix just doesn't implement or
> implements in ways that won't match with my needs.
>    I also hit a wall trying to find drivers for my soft modem, but if
> I really wanted KX, I'd buy an external.  I'm a fairly intense user,
> so it just wasn't going to work for me, but if your users are only
> using the "normal" 25% of Office abilities and such, it would be a
> great replacement!     PSP I never did find a replacement for, and am
> still looking.  Gimp et al could do the things, but I never found an
> all in one so I only had one app for it all.  PSP does about
> everything I need.

I've used Open Office in the past and now have Star Office and of
course it can also be installed as a Linux utility.

Sadly the Gimp doesn't come anywhere near PSP9 so if I switched to
Linux it would have to twin boot with Windows if only for PSP9.

Rob
From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com  Thu May  5 19:49:09 2005
From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus)
Date: Thu May  5 14:50:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dhfe$hgh$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5dpr4$lre$1@news.spamcop.net>

John Richards on 05/05/2005 wrote:

> "Pop" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net...
> > ...
> > I tried to make the switch myself, but it turned out I used too
> > many of the Office features that Knoppix just doesn't implement or
> > implements in ways that won't match with my needs.
> >   I also hit a wall trying to find drivers for my soft modem, but
> > if I really wanted KX, I'd buy an external.  I'm a fairly intense
> > user, so it
> 
> I tried various Linux distros, and inevitably, either my modem, or my
> printer, or my video card (or all three) weren't supported. So, I
> gave up and went back to Windows XP.
> 
> 
> > just wasn't going to work for me, but if your users are only using
> > the "normal" 25% of Office abilities and such, it would be a great
> > replacement!    PSP I never did find a replacement for, and am
> > still looking.  Gimp et al could do the things, but I never found
> > an all in one so I only had one app for it all.  PSP does about
> > everything I need.    There were video codec problems, too, so at
> > that point I decided I'd hit the point of diminishing returns and
> > figured I'd wait a year or so and see what's up again at that time.
> >   For "normal" users though, it's a GREAT way to go!  Beware, in
> > the beginning, there ARE lots of maintenance issues to work out,
> > but once you get it going, it's pretty stable.  My son in Ct relies
> > 100% on Linux.  To really make it dance though, you have to get
> > techie with it; it's not a pure "user's" tool.  AFAIK there is NO
> > turn-key Linux in the fashion of windows; after all, it is written
> > and supported by volunteers and their organization, albeit they are
> > very dedicated.    I'll probaby get flamed for this, but, there are
> > indications of some standards wars breaking out too.  I wouldn't
> > back burner it, but I'd wait a year at least to see what's up.
> 
> I totally agree. One needs to be a techie in order to make it work.
> That limits it to a very small segment of the user population.
> Bill Gates has nothing to worry about (yet).

It's sounding more and more like a twin boot with Windows job to get
the best of both worlds.

Rob
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Thu May  5 15:29:03 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Thu May  5 17:30:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dpns$lqv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5e338$r46$1@news.spamcop.net>

Canopus wrote:
> Sadly the Gimp doesn't come anywhere near PSP9 so if I switched to
> Linux it would have to twin boot with Windows if only for PSP9.

Wine.  http://appdb.winehq.org/  The top-10 Gold List - Applications
which install and run virtually flawless on a out-of-the-box Wine
installation make it to the Gold list: --  Paint Shop Pro


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net  Thu May  5 23:05:34 2005
From: anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net (Anthony Edwards)
Date: Thu May  5 18:10:07 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dhfe$hgh$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5dpr4$lre$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5e5be$rvq$1@news.spamcop.net>

On Thu, 5 May 2005 18:49:09 +0000 (UTC), Canopus <BNRAGMAOKKXT@spammotel.com>
wrote:

> It's sounding more and more like a twin boot with Windows job to get
> the best of both worlds.

That's how most of us who have migrated from Windows to Linux started
out.  In my case, I removed Windows altogether from my machines after
around three months, but it is nice to have the dual boot option for
as long as one wants or needs it.

Some Linux distributions are easier than others to install on machines
with Windows already installed in a dual boot configuration, SuSE
(now owned by Novell) being particularly simple in this regard.
Just boot from installation media and follow the prompts (but, as
best practice, back up existing data first).

If you want to see if your existing hardware is supported, download
the Live CD and boot from that.  See " SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3
Live version" at:

http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/downloads/suse_linux/index.html

-- 
Anthony Edwards              *     anthony.edwards@uk.easynet.net
Abuse Team Manager           *     Tel: 0800 053 0588
Easynet Ltd                  *     DDI: 0161 227 0707
http://www.uk.easynet.net    *     Fax: 0845 333 4503
From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com  Thu May  5 23:10:17 2005
From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus)
Date: Thu May  5 18:15:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dpns$lqv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5e338$r46$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5e5k9$skl$1@news.spamcop.net>

Mike Easter on 05/05/2005 wrote:

> Canopus wrote:
> > Sadly the Gimp doesn't come anywhere near PSP9 so if I switched to
> > Linux it would have to twin boot with Windows if only for PSP9.
> 
> Wine.  http://appdb.winehq.org/  The top-10 Gold List - Applications
> which install and run virtually flawless on a out-of-the-box Wine
> installation make it to the Gold list: --  Paint Shop Pro

Interesting, but, unfortunately although it is top of the Gold List it
is only V 4 and it looks like 5 that is.  PSP 9 only makes it to the
Bronze list stating:

What works:
- Open files
- Save files
- Browse Folders
- Merge Layers
- Brush Drawing

What doesn't work:
- Apply effects
- Fill surfaces
- Use the undo system

Considering I use it for photograph editing and need such features as
Histogram Adjustment, Digital Camera Noise Removal filter and Chromatic
Aberration Removal filter among others then it is pointless even trying
PSP 9 on that OS.  As far as V 4 and 5 are concerned very few people
use them any more as they are too primitive.

Rob
From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com  Thu May  5 23:16:56 2005
From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus)
Date: Thu May  5 18:20:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dhfe$hgh$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5dpr4$lre$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5e5be$rvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5e60o$sp3$1@news.spamcop.net>

Anthony Edwards on 05/05/2005 wrote:

> If you want to see if your existing hardware is supported, download
> the Live CD and boot from that.  See " SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3
> Live version" at.....

I believe I may have that CD somewhere, I'm sure I had it as one of the
free discs of a mag.  I may even be able to find it in a few days using
my amazing CD filing system.  Alternatively it may be quicker to
download it as you suggest :-)

Rob
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Fri May  6 01:17:57 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Thu May  5 18:20:06 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5dpdc$liv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd7l6sl.7hl.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Thu, 5 May 2005 18:41:48 +0000 (UTC), Canopus coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d5dpdc$liv$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> I suppose I could make room on my second HD which I use for backups and
> create a primary partition on it to try out Linux.

Linux doesn't require a primary partition.

The only requirement is that the kernel be installed in an area of the 
disk accessible to the BIOS. For example, some older machines only 
recognized disks up to 8GB and required BIOS overlays for the whole, 
say, 30GB to be usable in Windows. Linux, OTOH, once it's loaded, throws 
the BIOS out the window and uses its own code to access the entirety of 
the disk.

-- 
Steve

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
 stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
 neither do we."
       -- President George W. Bush addressing the Pentagon, 05-AUG-2004
From anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net  Thu May  5 23:18:55 2005
From: anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net (Anthony Edwards)
Date: Thu May  5 18:20:09 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <w1RKMlvCEhQx@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<1gw27th.13cvuj91epblbjN%asterix@no_where.net>
Message-ID: <d5e64f$rvq$2@news.spamcop.net>

On Wed, 4 May 2005 22:59:31 +0200, Asterix <asterix@no_where.net> wrote:

> I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines 
> to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour

We have seen two compromised Apple servers running Mac OS X Server this
week, which were subsequently (ab)used to transmit Unsolicited Bulk
Email without the legitimate machine owners' knowledge, authorisation
or permission.  In both instances, user accounts appear to have been
remotely compromised initially, and in one case a rootkit appears to
have subsequently been installed.

My guess is that such servers are now being actively targetted, so
the opportunity to make consultancy revenue from Apple shops may be
about to increase.

-- 
Anthony Edwards              *     anthony.edwards@uk.easynet.net
Abuse Team Manager           *     Tel: 0800 053 0588
Easynet Ltd                  *     DDI: 0161 227 0707
http://www.uk.easynet.net    *     Fax: 0845 333 4503
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Thu May  5 16:22:22 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Thu May  5 18:25:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dpns$lqv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5e338$r46$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5e5k9$skl$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5e676$t2a$1@news.spamcop.net>

Canopus wrote:
> Mike Easter on 05/05/2005 wrote:
>> Wine.  http://appdb.winehq.org/  The top-10 Gold List - Applications
>> which install and run virtually flawless on a out-of-the-box Wine
>> installation make it to the Gold list: --  Paint Shop Pro
>
> Interesting, but, unfortunately although it is top of the Gold List it
> is only V 4 and it looks like 5 that is.  PSP 9 only makes it to the
> Bronze list stating:

Here's the part I read from the site when I chased the various versions.
The place I read said that the trial version had problems but that the
reg'd version of 9 worked fine:

I went from the first link to here
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?appId=76  9.x This is version 9 of
Paint Shop Pro. Bronze 20050211 5 then here
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2505  then here -- these
are the last 2 of the 5

<W>
RE: PSP9: Starts up, but not usable. OpenGL error
by Valerie on Saturday January 29th 2005, 4:09

Yes, PSP 9.01 (registered version) seems to be working fine with
Wine-20050111. Infact I think its faster. I am not sure why the trial
version should not work. I wouldnt say its Garbage with this version.

 RE: PSP9: Starts up, but not usable. OpenGL error
by Jonathan Ernst on Friday February 18th 2005, 5:10

Just tried it with a registered version, it works here too.

</W>




-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com  Thu May  5 20:50:29 2005
From: zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com (John Zitterkopf)
Date: Thu May  5 22:55:27 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe no longer working... Any ideas?
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd7jpjf.35g.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d5em1o$500$1@news.spamcop.net>

> What about it no longer works? It doesn't forward to spamcop any more or
> it forwards everything? It forwards the wrong stuff?

No longer forwards or executes; which normally would indicate that I screwed
up my email address in the header checks.
However, I've checked it about a dozen times... every time I get a spammed
email (which I got two today already).

The "spam" intended to trapped doesn't appear in the
noSpamcop.mail
mbox folder... nor does it get forwarded to spamcop.

I know it use to work; because I remember cleaning it out recently.
Last time appears to be Apr 29 23:01 according to my local unix timestamp.

The funny thing is that nothing changed between then and now... my local
email address stayed the same... as did my spamcop address.
One thing that did occur is my spamcop address "expired" because I was
unaware and unnotified that it was up for renewal.
That problem was "rectified" within 12hrs. I wouldn't think bounces would be
tracked by procmail... ie I don't think procmail would stop forwarding a
certain receipe becuase the final address started bouncing.

:::Cornfused:::

> One thing that might be a problem, however, is your formail command. The
> expressions used aren't regexes so there's no need to escape the period
> as in:

Good catch; but sadly... a result of my copy/paste activity when posting and
hiding my real local email address.
The acutal receipe has standard email addresses in the formail line.


> On a side note, why don't you get SpamCop to pop your mail from your
> local account and you pop it, filtered, from SpamCop?

The local account is a home linux server.
It's the end of the line for a long email chain.

The idea is to have the email "local" to my many various machines.

John


From user at domain.invalid  Thu May  5 23:42:50 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Thu May  5 23:45:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] SORBS DNSBL
Message-ID: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>

Anybody notice how unruly dnsbl.sorbs.net can be?? I finally had to
remove it from my sendmail.cf file. Netscape Web Mail was being rejected
as was most all mail originating from BELLSOUTH.NET .. what a bummer!!
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Fri May  6 11:06:29 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Fri May  6 04:10:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Thu, 05 May 2005 22:42:50 -0500, User coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
left this in <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> Anybody notice how unruly dnsbl.sorbs.net can be?? I finally had to
> remove it from my sendmail.cf file. Netscape Web Mail was being rejected
> as was most all mail originating from BELLSOUTH.NET .. what a bummer!!

dnsbl.sorbs.net is an aggregate of many DNSBLs. If you want to be more 
picky about what you reject you can look at the various DNSBLs available 
here:

http://www.dnsbl.au.sorbs.net/using.shtml

Scroll down to the "Zones Available".

-- 
Steve

drug, n:
        A substance which, when injected into a rat, produces a
        scientific paper.
From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Fri May  6 23:30:05 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Fri May  6 18:35:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns964E9DCE1C398blammo@216.154.195.61>

On 05 May 2005 User entered spamcop.geeks and left 
news:d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net:

> Anybody notice how unruly dnsbl.sorbs.net can be?? I finally had to
> remove it from my sendmail.cf file. Netscape Web Mail was being rejected
> as was most all mail originating from BELLSOUTH.NET .. what a bummer!!

Currently I just use it to add a header to local deliveries because it's 
almost impossible to whitelist certain domains, ameritech, twtelecom, 
pacbell, qwest, these idiots don't know how to write good PTR records, such 
a PIA to deal with. Be nice to just reject all these bozo IPs that can't 
set a PTR record for their mail server (like get a real mail server), but 
unfortunately people actually want mail from them.
The other option is to use delay checks to check the sender before 
rejecting. Or come up with your own ruleset to deal with it.

It actually shouldn't be hard to white-list Netscape, but I don't know what 
their outgoing servers are, if it's going out AOL you can just white-list 
mx.aol.com.

-- 
| Ric
|
From agent01413 at my-deja.com  Sat May  7 00:34:23 2005
From: agent01413 at my-deja.com (Socks the Whitehouse Cat)
Date: Fri May  6 19:35:18 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns964EB2B68C4C6agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>

User <user@domain.invalid> wrote in news:d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net:

> Anybody notice how unruly dnsbl.sorbs.net can be?? I finally had to
> remove it from my sendmail.cf file. Netscape Web Mail was being rejected
> as was most all mail originating from BELLSOUTH.NET .. what a bummer!!

i'm using it with great success and no complaints.  most all mail from 
bellsouth SHOULD be rejected. They don't shut down spammers

-- 
"...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving 
safely in one pretty and well preserved piece, but to slide across the 
finish line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, and 
shouting GERONIMO!!!" -- Bill McKenna, date unknown
From jr70 at blackhole.invalid  Fri May  6 18:20:43 2005
From: jr70 at blackhole.invalid (John Richards)
Date: Fri May  6 20:25:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dhfe$hgh$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5dpr4$lre$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5e5be$rvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5h1ks$btb$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Anthony Edwards" <anthony.edwards@uk.easynet.net> wrote in message news:d5e5be$rvq$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
> If you want to see if your existing hardware is supported, download
> the Live CD and boot from that.  See " SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3
> Live version" at:
> 
> http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/downloads/suse_linux/index.html

Which states: "This version runs entirely from the bootable DVD ..."
I thought it ran from a bootable CD? I have no access to a DVD burner.

-- 
John Richards
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Fri May  6 20:48:03 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (WazoO)
Date: Fri May  6 20:50:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dhfe$hgh$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5dpr4$lre$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5e5be$rvq$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5h1ks$btb$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5h383$cli$1@news.spamcop.net>

"John Richards" <jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote in message
news:d5h1ks$btb$1@news.spamcop.net...
> "Anthony Edwards" <anthony.edwards@uk.easynet.net> wrote in message
news:d5e5be$rvq$1@news.spamcop.net...
> >
> > If you want to see if your existing hardware is supported, download
> > the Live CD and boot from that.  See " SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3
> > Live version" at:
> >
> >
http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/downloads/suse_linux/index.html
>
> Which states: "This version runs entirely from the bootable DVD ..."
> I thought it ran from a bootable CD? I have no access to a DVD burner.

>From ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/suse/i386/9.2/iso/README.txt
You have the choice:

1) If you have a DVD burner, you can download the file
   SUSE-Linux-9.2-FTP-DVD.iso (the file's exact size is 3363543040 Bytes!)
   and burn it on a DVD to boot and install from it, just like you would
   do with a DVD from a SUSE Linux 9.2 box edition.

2) If you have a CDR/RW burner, you may want to download the file
   SUSE-Linux-9.2-mini-installation.iso (size: exactly 67336192 bytes),
   burn it on a CD and boot from it to start the installation of the SUSE
   Linux 9.2 FTP version. The advantage over option 1) is clear: You only
   download the packages that you need:  From the total of 3GB of the
   DVD image you might only need 1GB for your desired selection of
   packages to install.

Also, consult the README file in the 9.2/boot directory (same level as this
"iso" directory).


From MikeE at ster.invalid  Fri May  6 22:00:18 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sat May  7 00:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Avoiding sending MIME from Microsoft Windows XP
References: <oak44ABPjeNZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d5117j$i8h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5bdu2$dvq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrnd7ifpi.7eo.nobody@127.0.0.1> <d5d9um$d74$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5dhfe$hgh$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5dpr4$lre$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5e5be$rvq$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5h1ks$btb$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5hecr$i4l$1@news.spamcop.net>

John Richards wrote:
> "Anthony Edwards"

>> If you want to see if your existing hardware is supported, download
>> the Live CD and boot from that.  See " SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3
>> Live version" at:
>>
>>
http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/downloads/suse_linux/index.html
>
> Which states: "This version runs entirely from the bootable DVD ..."
> I thought it ran from a bootable CD? I have no access to a DVD burner.

You are correct, DVD.  SuSE's CDs for an install number 5 -- there isn't
such a live CD iso.

You can order a live DVD, $8 for the regular 9.3, $25 for the 9.3 Pro at
http://www.linuxcd.org


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From user at domain.invalid  Sat May  7 00:59:20 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Sat May  7 01:00:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
In-Reply-To: <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d5hhou$k2j$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 06.05.2005 03:06, Steven Maesslein wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On Thu, 05 May 2005 22:42:50 -0500, User coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
> left this in <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>:
> 
>> Anybody notice how unruly dnsbl.sorbs.net can be?? I finally had to
>> remove it from my sendmail.cf file. Netscape Web Mail was being rejected
>> as was most all mail originating from BELLSOUTH.NET .. what a bummer!!
> 
> dnsbl.sorbs.net is an aggregate of many DNSBLs. If you want to be more 
> picky about what you reject you can look at the various DNSBLs available 
> here:
> 
> http://www.dnsbl.au.sorbs.net/using.shtml
> 
> Scroll down to the "Zones Available".
> 

Since removing the dnsbl.sorbs.net entry most if not all of the problems
disappeared. I've been running the following for a VERY long time:

bl.spamcop.net
sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org
relays.ordb.org
dnsbl.njabl.org
list.dsbl.org

Over 6,000+ rejections daily and no complaints from clients. Only had
unhappy campers after adding dnsbl.sorbs.net .. they can keep it!!

And those rejections don't include those from the access.db and/or
Spamassassin, ClamAV, etc. I only have commercial mail accounts, they're
happy and I'm happy that they're happy !! :-)

From user at domain.invalid  Sat May  7 01:01:18 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Sat May  7 01:00:07 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
In-Reply-To: <Xns964EB2B68C4C6agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns964EB2B68C4C6agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <d5hhsj$k2j$2@news.spamcop.net>

On 06.05.2005 18:34, Socks the Whitehouse Cat wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> i'm using it with great success and no complaints.  most all mail from 
> bellsouth SHOULD be rejected. They don't shut down spammers

You wouldn't be pooh-poohing Bellsouth if you had as many PAYing clients
as I have .. !! :-)
From scamper at trisk.com  Sat May  7 02:46:49 2005
From: scamper at trisk.com (Garen Erdoisa)
Date: Sat May  7 03:45:23 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe no longer working... Any ideas?
In-Reply-To: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5hrlm$os0$1@news.spamcop.net>

John Zitterkopf wrote:
> I've been getting SPAM to a local address not published on the internet.
> 
> Header with my email and server changed to myemail@mylocalserver.com to
> avoid more spam at this local server.
> 
> Return-Path: <KFBGW@artelco.com>
> X-Original-To: myemail@mylocalserver.com
> Delivered-To: myemail@mylocalserver.com
> Received: from 200-233-183-078-xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br
> (200-233-183-078-xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br [200.233.183.78])
> 	by mylocalserver.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 216AFEDEC4
> 	for <x>; Wed,  4 May 2005 18:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
> Received: from 129.231.214.4 by 200.233.183.78; Wed, 04 May 2005
> 23:20:00 -0300
> Message-ID: <YMVR_____________OWDN@aisp.net>
> From: "Hal Weaver" <KFBGW@artelco.com>
> Reply-To: "Hal Weaver" <KFBGW@artelco.com>
> To: x
> Subject: We can sheep you disccounted errection mads feast
> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 07:18:00 +0500
> X-Mailer: AOL 93.0 for Windows US sub 637
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> 	boundary="--JLCAYZJNA02756EASLR"
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-IP:198.98.52.149
> Status: RO
> I've been trying to trap these types of spammers using a procmail reciepe
> that I thought I had working previously. But for some reason it no longer
> works...
> Can't figure out why...
> 
> The idea is that if I get email directly on this server without it going
> through spamcop; I resend it for "filtering" by spamcop.
> 
> #forward any mail which hasn't been though spamcop to spamcop for filtering
> :0 H
> * -2^0
> * 1^0 ^Delivered-To:.*myemail@mylocalserver\.com
> * 1^0 !^Delivered-To:.*spamcop-net-zitt@spamcop\.net
> # Avoid email loops
> * 1^0 !^X-Loop:.*myemail@mylocalserver\.com
> {
>   :0
>   { RULE="no Spamcop filtered mail" }
>   :0c:   #Preserve a copy of the email
>   noSpamcop.mail
>   :0fwh  #Adjust some headers before forwarding
>   | formail -A"X-Loop: myemail@mylocalserver\.com" \
>             -A"X-From-Origin: ${FROM_}" \
>             -i"Subject: $SUBJ_ (fwd)" \
>             -A"X-Rule: $RULE"
>   :0:
>   ! zitt@spamcop.net

Noticed one problem the above recipe should read:

  :0
  ! zitt@spamcop.net

or if you want a lockfile anyway, just specify one to use thus:

  :0: mylockfile.lock
  ! zitt@spamcop.net

  That 2nd colon without a subsequent filename tells procmail to use an 
implied lockfile, however procmail is unable to determine a lockfile for 
this recipe because it translates to something like

   /usr/sbin/sendmail -oi zitt@spamcop.net

That in and of itself shouldn't cause a failure, it would just cause 
procmail to complain about the lockfile.

> }
> 
> Anyone have any ideas what may be going wrong now?
> Why isn't it working?

Other than that the recipe looks like it should work. I tried it on my 
system having it mail your test message above to a local account and it 
did work, however I had to delete the content type header first or the 
body of the message got corrupted since I didn't have the original mime 
message body to work with, I just replaced it with plain text.

Try this while debugging it.

At the top of the recipe you are testing put:

  VERBOSE=yes

At the bottom of the recipe you are testing put:

:0
/dev/null

While debugging, change the delivery address to a local account while 
you are testing the recipe.

Save the recipe you are testing to a file such as "test.rc".

Save the raw message you are testing the recipe on in a file such as 
"testmessage", then try this from the command line.

  procmail test.rc <testmessage

or to pipe the output from stderr and stdout into a pager:

  procmail test.rc <testmessage 2>&1 |less

Then you can see what procmail is actually doing as it processes the 
test message. If you have long recipes though, it may create a huge 
ammount of output.  The above method is usefull for debugging recipes.

As an alternative to the above, you can do this instead:

LOGFILE=${HOME}/procmail.log
VERBOSE=yes

...
stuff you are testing
...

VERBOSE=no

Then watch the procmail.log file as it processes emails.

tail -f procmail.log

> 
> John

Hope this helps.
Garen
From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Sat May  7 18:41:04 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Sat May  7 17:45:06 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
In-Reply-To: <d5hhou$k2j$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d5hhou$k2j$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5jclg$hhc$1@news.spamcop.net>

User wrote:
> On 06.05.2005 03:06, Steven Maesslein wrote:
>  
>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 22:42:50 -0500, User coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
>>left this in <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>:
>>
>>
>>>Anybody notice how unruly dnsbl.sorbs.net can be?? I finally had to
>>>remove it from my sendmail.cf file. Netscape Web Mail was being rejected
>>>as was most all mail originating from BELLSOUTH.NET .. what a bummer!!
>>
>>dnsbl.sorbs.net is an aggregate of many DNSBLs. If you want to be more 
>>picky about what you reject you can look at the various DNSBLs available 
>>here:
>>
>>http://www.dnsbl.au.sorbs.net/using.shtml
>>
>>Scroll down to the "Zones Available".
>>
> Since removing the dnsbl.sorbs.net entry most if not all of the problems
> disappeared. I've been running the following for a VERY long time:
> 
> bl.spamcop.net
> sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org
> relays.ordb.org
> dnsbl.njabl.org
> list.dsbl.org
> 
> Over 6,000+ rejections daily and no complaints from clients. Only had
> unhappy campers after adding dnsbl.sorbs.net .. they can keep it!!

You will find that those false positives are probably from when 
dnsbl.sorbs.net returns 127.0.0.6

If you followed the above link for SORBS, you will see that 127.0.0.6 is 
  their spam-trap zone that usually requires the ISP to pay a donation 
to charity to get delisted.  It only takes one multi-hop spam or virus 
to get on that list, so many of the residential ISPs will get listed on 
a regular basis.

Now you will probably find that using dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net will reduce 
what spam is currently leaking through.  It will likely have a lower 
chance of a false positive than bl.spamcop.net.

The rest of the sorbs zones in the dnsbl will likely be listing the same 
I.P. addresses that your existing ones are providing better coverage of.

The use of spam.dnsbl.sorbs.net is more suited for a scoring system than 
an outright block.  Think of it more as a multi-hop spam list.

The bl.spamcop.net will also sometimes list real mail servers.  The 
difference is that it takes more spam trap hits for spamcop.net, and the 
listing will expire with in 24 hours after the network owner takes action.

 From what I have seen, it is the SORBS dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net that 
provides the best listing of DHCP spam or virus sources sources.

I get mail on one mail server that uses SORBS DUHL (dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net) 
and one that uses dynablock.njabl.org.  SORBS by far has more dhcp pools 
listed, and SORBS has a web based system so mistakenly listed static 
addresses can be easily be delisted by their owners if they have dns 
entry with a long enough TTL to indicate static.

-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
From / at /.cn  Sun May  8 11:37:30 2005
From: / at /.cn (Petzl)
Date: Sat May  7 20:40:16 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] How to make a USB drive Bootable
Message-ID: <d5jn0d$m47$1@news.spamcop.net>

http://aaltonen.us/archive/2004/03/01/tip-boot-from-usb-key-addendum/
or http://tinyurl.com/deznc

Some time ago I asked the question and although a number were interested no 
one knew how.
I wanted one so I did not have to fly with a Laptop overseas

I found on EBAY there are Samsung 80GB 5400rpm Laptop drives that come with 
USB enclosures on a direct (Buy Now) Price of US$130 (Drives alone are under 
US$110)

These need no power supply and easily fit in top pocket and a lot more 
robust and easy to cary than a laptop

Petzl
--
SECURE YOUR WINDOWS COMPUTER NOW!!
<http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp> Keep Windows UPDATED

<http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5> AVG 7.0 Free 
Edition" Anti-Virus

<http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx> 
Check your computer for "SpyWare" (free MS Product)

<http://www.zonelabs.com/> a good firewall for windows(free version 
available)

<http://www.password-depot.com/news/v2.htm> Use a Password Saver on USB 
removable drive to store passwords


From user at domain.invalid  Sun May  8 01:25:50 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Sun May  8 01:25:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
In-Reply-To: <d5jclg$hhc$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d5hhou$k2j$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5jclg$hhc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5k7m7$uc0$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 07.05.2005 16:41, John E. Malmberg wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> User wrote:
>> On 06.05.2005 03:06, Steven Maesslein wrote:
>>  
>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 22:42:50 -0500, User coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
>>>left this in <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net>:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anybody notice how unruly dnsbl.sorbs.net can be?? I finally had to
>>>>remove it from my sendmail.cf file. Netscape Web Mail was being rejected
>>>>as was most all mail originating from BELLSOUTH.NET .. what a bummer!!
>>>
>>>dnsbl.sorbs.net is an aggregate of many DNSBLs. If you want to be more 
>>>picky about what you reject you can look at the various DNSBLs available 
>>>here:
>>>
>>>http://www.dnsbl.au.sorbs.net/using.shtml
>>>
>>>Scroll down to the "Zones Available".
>>>
>> Since removing the dnsbl.sorbs.net entry most if not all of the problems
>> disappeared. I've been running the following for a VERY long time:
>> 
>> bl.spamcop.net
>> sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org
>> relays.ordb.org
>> dnsbl.njabl.org
>> list.dsbl.org
>> 
>> Over 6,000+ rejections daily and no complaints from clients. Only had
>> unhappy campers after adding dnsbl.sorbs.net .. they can keep it!!
> 
> You will find that those false positives are probably from when 
> dnsbl.sorbs.net returns 127.0.0.6
> 
> If you followed the above link for SORBS, you will see that 127.0.0.6 is 
>   their spam-trap zone that usually requires the ISP to pay a donation 
> to charity to get delisted.  It only takes one multi-hop spam or virus 
> to get on that list, so many of the residential ISPs will get listed on 
> a regular basis.
> 
> Now you will probably find that using dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net will reduce 
> what spam is currently leaking through.  It will likely have a lower 
> chance of a false positive than bl.spamcop.net.
> 
> The rest of the sorbs zones in the dnsbl will likely be listing the same 
> I.P. addresses that your existing ones are providing better coverage of.
> 
> The use of spam.dnsbl.sorbs.net is more suited for a scoring system than 
> an outright block.  Think of it more as a multi-hop spam list.
> 
> The bl.spamcop.net will also sometimes list real mail servers.  The 
> difference is that it takes more spam trap hits for spamcop.net, and the 
> listing will expire with in 24 hours after the network owner takes action.
> 
>  From what I have seen, it is the SORBS dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net that 
> provides the best listing of DHCP spam or virus sources sources.
> 
> I get mail on one mail server that uses SORBS DUHL (dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net) 
> and one that uses dynablock.njabl.org.  SORBS by far has more dhcp pools 
> listed, and SORBS has a web based system so mistakenly listed static 
> addresses can be easily be delisted by their owners if they have dns 
> entry with a long enough TTL to indicate static.
> 
> -John
> wb8tyw@qsl.network
> Personal Opinion Only

Well, having 5 bl's in sendmail.cf is probably a good enough configured
limit of sorts. Too many listings can degrade performance. And besides,
the clients are happy and I ain't fixing something that ain't busted. :-)

SpamAssassin, ClamAV and 5 bl's is plenty, not enough slips through to
be concerned.
From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Sun May  8 11:31:48 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Sun May  8 10:35:12 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
In-Reply-To: <d5k7m7$uc0$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d5hhou$k2j$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5jclg$hhc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5k7m7$uc0$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5l7sk$d9b$1@news.spamcop.net>

User wrote:

> 
> Well, having 5 bl's in sendmail.cf is probably a good enough configured
> limit of sorts. Too many listings can degrade performance. And besides,
> the clients are happy and I ain't fixing something that ain't busted. :-)
> 
> SpamAssassin, ClamAV and 5 bl's is plenty, not enough slips through to
> be concerned.

Most of njabl.org is now covered by sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org, so if you were 
to replace the njabl.org listing with dul.dsnbl.sorbs.net you would 
still have the same open proxy/open relay coverage, but a slightly 
improved DHCP coverage.

But if you leave it the way that it is, and get feedback from your 
clients on the spam that gets through, NJABL.ORG will accept suggestions 
for updates on their dynablock list.  So eventually it could get as up 
to date as SORBS.

Since one of the servers that I get e-mail from is using dynablock, such 
feedback will cut down on the spam that I get.


SpamAssassin 3.0 has a feature that checks the URLs in mail to see if 
they resolve to locations in DNSbls.

While the bl.spamcop.net, incorrect rDNS, or the dnsbl.sorbs.net, or 
multihop.dsbl.org lists by them selves will produce a lot of false 
positives, combining them with SpamAssasin detecting that the URL 
resolves to an I.P. in the sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org should produce zero 
false positives.

If I were running a mail server and a scoring system, for the above, I 
would give bl.spamcop.net, dnsbl.sorbs.net, or bad rDNS each over 50% of 
  the score needed for SpamAssasin to cause rejection of the message as 
spam.

And then the having the URL resolve to being listed in 
sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org be enough to cause rejection.

If the sending system has a good rDNS and is not in any DNSbls at all, I 
would not run it through anything other than possibly a virus scanner.

 From what I have seen, content filtering for spam on I.Ps that have 
correct rDNS and are not in any DNSbl is far more likely to catch 
legitimate e-mail than it is to catch an additional spam items.  And 
that includes the Bayesian filtering method.

-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
From user at domain.invalid  Sun May  8 14:20:21 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Sun May  8 14:20:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
In-Reply-To: <d5l7sk$d9b$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d5hhou$k2j$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5jclg$hhc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5k7m7$uc0$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5l7sk$d9b$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5ll7o$jq6$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 08.05.2005 09:31, John E. Malmberg wrote:

> 
> Most of njabl.org is now covered by sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org, so if you were 
> to replace the njabl.org listing with dul.dsnbl.sorbs.net you would 
> still have the same open proxy/open relay coverage, but a slightly 
> improved DHCP coverage.

I have the same suggestion in other camps and I may just do that. Thanks
for bringing that up again.


> SpamAssassin 3.0 has a feature that checks the URLs in mail to see if 
> they resolve to locations in DNSbls.

I AM running 3.0 .. thanks.

> -John
> wb8tyw@qsl.network
> Personal Opinion Only

Users are quite happy at the moment but I constantly am on the hunt for
better stuff and suggestions .. :-)

Now if I can just remmeber to restart sendmail after additions, etc. :-)
From user at domain.invalid  Sun May  8 14:48:02 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Sun May  8 14:50:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: SORBS DNSBL
In-Reply-To: <d5ll7o$jq6$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5ep2u$6d6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd7m9c5.35f.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d5hhou$k2j$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5jclg$hhc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5k7m7$uc0$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5l7sk$d9b$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d5ll7o$jq6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5lmrg$ko1$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 08.05.2005 13:20, User wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 08.05.2005 09:31, John E. Malmberg wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Most of njabl.org is now covered by sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org, so if you were 
>> to replace the njabl.org listing with dul.dsnbl.sorbs.net you would 
>> still have the same open proxy/open relay coverage, but a slightly 
>> improved DHCP coverage.
> 
> I have the same suggestion in other camps and I may just do that. Thanks
> for bringing that up again.
> 
> 
>> SpamAssassin 3.0 has a feature that checks the URLs in mail to see if 
>> they resolve to locations in DNSbls.
> 
> I AM running 3.0 .. thanks.

Actually 3.0.2

>> -John
>> wb8tyw@qsl.network
>> Personal Opinion Only
> 
> Users are quite happy at the moment but I constantly am on the hunt for
> better stuff and suggestions .. :-)
> 
> Now if I can just remmeber to restart sendmail after additions, etc. :-)

Ok, deleted the njabl and added the dul.dnsbl.sorbs.net

We'll see what the logs AND users say in the next few days .. Thanks

And YES, I restarted Sendmail .. :-)
From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Tue May 10 02:30:46 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Tue May 10 01:35:09 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] RPCSS
Message-ID: <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net>

Started experiencing diverse slow-downs with my box, running Windows Server 2003.  Noticed that when booting up message "RPCSS is starting" would sit for several minutes before the login box would appear.

I read on the US CERT web site that there was a vulnerability -- suspecting me to believe someone on the cable modem network might be hacking or atttempting DOS against my server.

I followed the recommendations on Microsoft's site to disable DCOM and this caused the dependent RPC services to be disabled.  

The box crashed and on reboot noticed active desktop was gone and couldn't be re-started... all of my printers and access to USB drives vanished... and the task bar would not show any running programs.

I went into services to re-establish the DCOM but the options were all greyed out.  I am logged in as adminstrator so not sure why all the options are grayed out.  

I get the sinking feeling I'm going to have to pull out a CD and re-install WS03... 

Am I completely FOOBAR'ed?



-- 
I Shave With Occams Razor 
http://www.dwacon.com
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Tue May 10 02:06:45 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (WazoO)
Date: Tue May 10 02:10:09 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: RPCSS
References: <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5pj1l$mkn$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Dwayne Conyers" <noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
news:d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net...

Setting your app to post "plain text" is the preferred mode for
posting into a newsgroup.

> I read on the US CERT web site that there was a vulnerability -- 
> suspecting me to believe someone on the cable modem network
> might be hacking or atttempting DOS against my server.

And just where is your firewall?

> I followed the recommendations on Microsoft's site to
> disable DCOM and this caused the dependent RPC
> services to be disabled.

Not stated .. what instructions?  Maybe take a look at
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-039.mspx
which includes some detail to see if this stuff is installed, links
to other data pages  ...?

> I went into services to re-establish the DCOM but the
> options were all greyed out.  I am logged in as adminstrator
> so not sure why all the options are grayed out.

Did you "remove" or did you "uninstall" ...???  As in the
above link, perhaps simply going through the Add/Remove
process to re-install, then apply security updates/patches,
install the apparently missing firewall ...???

> Am I completely FOOBAR'ed?

Hard to say, as it appears that there's a fact or two
missing from your story at this point.


From SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com  Tue May 10 01:03:35 2005
From: SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com (Brian (SnSR))
Date: Tue May 10 03:05:10 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: RPCSS
In-Reply-To: <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5pmcg$pgq$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> Started experiencing diverse slow-downs with my box, running Windows Server 2003.  Noticed that when booting up message "RPCSS is starting" would sit for several minutes before the login box would appear.
> 
> I read on the US CERT web site that there was a vulnerability -- suspecting me to believe someone on the cable modem network might be hacking or atttempting DOS against my server.
> 
> I followed the recommendations on Microsoft's site to disable DCOM and this caused the dependent RPC services to be disabled.  
> 
> The box crashed and on reboot noticed active desktop was gone and couldn't be re-started... all of my printers and access to USB drives vanished... and the task bar would not show any running programs.
> 
> I went into services to re-establish the DCOM but the options were all greyed out.  I am logged in as adminstrator so not sure why all the options are grayed out.  
> 
> I get the sinking feeling I'm going to have to pull out a CD and re-install WS03... 
> 
> Am I completely FOOBAR'ed?
> 
> 

Try rebooting a second time and go from there.
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Tue May 10 12:21:29 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Tue May 10 05:25:12 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: RPCSS
References: <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd80v8p.3il.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Tue, 10 May 2005 01:30:46 -0400, Dwayne Conyers coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net>:

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
>
> {snip}

??????

-- 
Steve

Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
From me at my.net  Tue May 10 17:32:29 2005
From: me at my.net (Tom Moore)
Date: Tue May 10 17:35:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Verizon DSL
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
References: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
Message-ID: <d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net>

There is an RJ-45 jack too.  Probably has a cover over it...

eddie wrote:
> I use speakeasy DSL as a backup to my cable connection. I have had it for
> years, dating back to flashcom days. They went belly-up and their "Father"
> Covad switched me over to speakeasy. The connection is an old-fashioned
> 384K and I recently noticed Verizon offering DSL for nearly 1/3 the
> speakeasy price so I called them. Not only cheaper, but they claim 3 meg!
> Well I am not counting megs, but the bucks are good, so I am in the
> process of switching over. 
> Verizon's modem is newer and includes a router but it only has an RJ-11
> input and my present DSL uses RJ-45 on both ends. The box coming
> into the house is RJ-45. 
> Verizon was clueless when I called them. I guess I will have to make a
> cable with RJ-45 on one end and RJ-11 on the other side. Only two wires
> are used for the DSL input. I already have a box installed on the outside
> of my house with a splitter and filters but Verizon expects me to use my
> phone line to connect to their modem. Talk about thinking inside a box.
> It should be interesting when the equipment comes, and if I do get 3M/s
> for $30/month, it will be a fine backup system.
> I was thinking of calling speakeasy and asking them if they would up my
> speed to 3M and cut the price to $30, but I didn't want to embarass them.
> If Verizon works, for the price I will be happy, since I rarely use it
> anyway. Just another toy, I guess. But I once read that he who has the
> most toys at the end is the winner :)
> One thing: I don't expect the same tech service from Verizon as I get from
> speakeasy, but again, it's really a secondary, backup system for when the
> cable goes dead.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Tue May 10 21:19:11 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (Heidi)
Date: Tue May 10 20:20:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Why aren't my OE filters working?
Message-ID: <d5rj23$ro7$1@news.spamcop.net>

No comments  on the mail client, I have no plans to change to a mac or
Linux - if you make mail rules, they should work. I have one that says if
the body contains "viagra" or "cialis" etc., do not download it from the
server.  It's still downloading, anyone know why?


From nobody at spamcop.net  Tue May 10 21:27:34 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (Dave Lerner)
Date: Tue May 10 20:30:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Why aren't my OE filters working?
In-Reply-To: <d5rj23$ro7$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5rj23$ro7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5rjhm$rqj$1@news.spamcop.net>

Heidi wrote on 05/10/2005 08:19 PM:
> No comments  on the mail client, I have no plans to change to a mac or
> Linux - if you make mail rules, they should work. I have one that says if
> the body contains "viagra" or "cialis" etc., do not download it from the
> server.  It's still downloading, anyone know why?

Just a guess, but how can OE tell what's in the body without downloading it?
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Tue May 10 18:43:59 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Tue May 10 20:45:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Why aren't my OE filters working?
References: <d5rj23$ro7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5rkcj$sds$1@news.spamcop.net>

Heidi wrote:
> No comments  on the mail client, I have no plans to change to a mac or
> Linux - if you make mail rules, they should work. I have one that
> says if the body contains "viagra" or "cialis" etc., do not download
> it from the server.  It's still downloading, anyone know why?

I don't believe that OE's rules 'tell the truth' about their
functionality.  I don't know what 'don't download it from the server'
actually means in the context of OE's functionality.  [Added later:
actually the rule is 'delete it from the server' and Tom Koch's site
addresses the subject as well.]

It functions as a pop client typically.  When it does that, the first
thing it does before it 'looks at' an email message is download it from
the server -- so any mailrule to the contrary is bullsh*t.  Even if it
had some 'power' like an app like MailWasher which can look at an item
on the server including its headers and a little bit of its body, it
would have a really hard time telling about what was in the body if it
didn't dl it from the server.  And in the case of OE and pop, there's no
such thing as any pop related command which can look at any part of the
body.

So, let's forget about 'don't download from the server'.  That's not a
good messagerule to make about looking for something in the body.  If
you were willing to delete an item without it being seen, which is quite
a different thing from not downloading from the server, that kind of
rule would work -- but you might be deleting a perfectly good mail.

IMO, OE's rules aren't good for very much.  At one time when I used
them, the only thing I used them for was to sort my mail into folders
from my known friends and my mailing lists and all of the mail which
didn't have my addy in the To.  In my case, that was actually pretty
powerful, because I don't have to deal with 'any' unknown wanted mail -
so a lot of my spam went to Junk because it didn't have me in the To,
all of my friends' mails were in my Friends folder, and almost all of
what was left in the Inbox was Junk.

But, I don't do that anymore.  I put SpamPal between me and my
provider's mailbox and just about 100% of my spam is subject branded as
spam and my OE sorts it into the Junk folder on the basis of the subject
brand and absolutely 0% is ever falsely branded.


[Added] - Koch's site is here http://www.insideoe.com/
http://www.insideoe.com/faqs/why.htm#rules Why don't my message rules
work?
http://www.insideoe.com/tips/rules.htm  Tips and Ideas - Message Rules -
Deleting messages without downloading


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Wed May 11 03:41:25 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Wed May 11 02:45:23 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: RPCSS
References: <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5s9ei$85h$1@news.spamcop.net>

sorry about the HTML -- I was using a system in a hotel since my machine is 
dead and I failed to notice that the default was set to HTML -- I'm going to 
have to make a note to check messages each time I switch boxes.

Anyway, reposting with additional expository.





"Dwayne Conyers" <noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message 
news:d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net...

Started experiencing diverse slow-downs with my development server, a box 
running Windows Server 2003 that is connected to a cable modem for net 
connectivity.  I noticed the system would hang and freeze for no apparent 
reason.  When re-booting, the message "RPCSS is starting" would sit for 
several minutes before the login box would appear.

Did not have a hardware firewall -- box was not networked and all accounts 
were disabled except the admin which was renamed.  However, used windows 
firewall and zonealarm.

Attempting to investigate what was going on, did some google searches and 
found on the US CERT web site that there was a vulnerability -- suspecting 
me to believe someone on the cable modem network might be hacking or 
atttempting DOS against my server.

I read security alerts on Microsoft's site which were vague but the one 
thing that jumped out at me was to disable DCOM, which I did in the services 
control panel applet.  This caused the dependent RPC services to be 
disabled.

The box crashed and on reboot noticed active desktop was gone and couldn't 
be re-started... all of my printers and access to USB drives vanished... and 
the task bar showed desktop and quick launch but would not show any running 
programs.  Also, Outlook seemed to be able to receive e-mail but could not 
send.

Figuring the disabling of DCOM was a mistake, I went back into services to 
re-establish the DCOM but the options were all greyed out.  I am logged in 
as adminstrator so not sure why all the options are grayed out.

I get the sinking feeling I'm going to have to pull out a CD and re-install 
WS03... but seeking ideas...




-- 
I Shave With Occams Razor
http://www.dwacon.com 


From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Wed May 11 04:53:27 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Glenn Daniels)
Date: Wed May 11 03:55:23 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: RPCSS
References: <d5pgu3$ljp$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5s9ei$85h$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5sdl3$al2$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Dwayne Conyers"  wrote in message
...

> Figuring the disabling of DCOM was a mistake, I went back into services to
> re-establish the DCOM but the options were all greyed out.  I am logged in
> as adminstrator so not sure why all the options are grayed out.
>
> I get the sinking feeling I'm going to have to pull out a CD and
re-install
> WS03... but seeking ideas...

I dunno from WS03, but in 98SE or 2K Pro, one simply
reboots in "Safe Mode" renegotiates the settings to
preferences and then restarts in "Normal Mode", but
it may require a couple of rounds to get everything back
to rights.

Several viruses install themselves using firewall defeating
holes created by DCOM exploits. Only Avast! seems
to detect the exploits whilst Symantec claims they
are not malware. You may need to completely remove
the firewall and reinstall it making sure the computer
is not otherwise already infected. Netsky.D was
especially good about installing the DCOM exploit
when delivered by way of unopened virms. Dunno
how it did it but it did.

Good luck with this one,

Glenn


From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Wed May 11 09:31:48 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Wed May 11 04:35:07 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Verizon DSL
References: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
	<d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61>

On 10 May 2005 Tom Moore entered spamcop.geeks and left
news:d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net: 

> There is an RJ-45 jack too.  Probably has a cover over it...

Regardless, you can just use a RJ-11 cable to connect the two.
You only need RJ-45 for networking, or in the rare case you have more than 
3 phone lines. Ethernet requires CAT5 twisted pair using (for TX and RX) 
pins 1 and 2, 3 and 6. Phone lines use pins 4 and 5, 3 and 6 (if two 
lines).
I'm not sure how homes are usually wired for DSL, but I would assume you 
can filter line one (pins 4 and 5) for phone and use line two (pins 3 and 
6) for the DSL. I don't know whether the modem looks for line two, but if 
the outlet is wired directly to a distribution box, as it usually is in 
newer homes, it's easy to swap the wiring for that outlet. You can add a 
distribution box by running CAT5e cable out to the telephone demarc box. 
The demarc usually has two jumpers for up to 4 lines, so you can connect 
all 4 pair if you want, connecting the other end to a structured wiring 
panel demarcation connection, this allows you to select which line goes to 
which room, or even network your home through this one panel. Using CAT5e 
connections, and/or wiring for both network and phone with dual jack boxes, 
allows you to run multiple lines, select which line goes where, or even 
send the Internet uplink from the modem back out to the panel where you can 
have the network switch located.

I found many sites with wiring diagrams such as
http://www.leviton-lin.com/learning/jackpindesignations.aspx

Note that phone generally uses (UTP pairs) blue for line 1, orange for line 
2 and green for line 3. Ethernet cables usually swap the orange and green 
pair, not that the color really matters, ethernet cables you buy are 
usually T568B.

> 
> eddie wrote:
>> <snip> 
>> Verizon's modem is newer and includes a router but it only has an
>> RJ-11 input and my present DSL uses RJ-45 on both ends. The box
>> coming into the house is RJ-45. 
>> Verizon was clueless when I called them. I guess I will have to make
>> a cable with RJ-45 on one end and RJ-11 on the other side. Only two
>> wires are used for the DSL input. I already have a box installed on
>> the outside of my house with a splitter and filters but Verizon
>> expects me to use my phone line to connect to their modem. Talk about
>> thinking inside a box. 
> <snip>

Not sure why I replied, maybe because I'm thinking about someone who has a 
strange phone line problem where some network lines don't seem to work 
(maybe stapled cables) and some phones disconnect other phones (either low 
voltage or crossed wires?).

-- 
| Ric
|
From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Wed May 11 10:51:18 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Wed May 11 05:55:19 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Verizon DSL
References: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
	<d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net> <Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <Xns96531D0B16885blammo@216.154.195.61>

On 11 May 2005 Blammo entered spamcop.geeks and left 
news:Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61:

> ...wiring for both network and phone with dual jack boxes, 
> allows you to run multiple lines...

Huh, looks like I'm going to need several wall jacks in every room to run 
all my Telco powered devices...
http://www.sandman.com/telco.html

-- 
| Ric
|
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Wed May 11 13:11:40 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Wed May 11 06:15:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Verizon DSL
References: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
	<d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net> <Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61>
	<Xns96531D0B16885blammo@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <slrnd83mis.3kq.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 11 May 2005 09:51:18 +0000 (UTC), Blammo coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <Xns96531D0B16885blammo@216.154.195.61>:

> Huh, looks like I'm going to need several wall jacks in every room to run 
> all my Telco powered devices...
> http://www.sandman.com/telco.html

<*SPLORF*>

You could have given a C&C warning...

-- 
Steve

A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
From devnull at spamcop.net  Wed May 11 09:03:09 2005
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Wed May 11 08:30:10 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Verizon DSL
References: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
	<d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net> <Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <d5ston$mkb$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Blammo" <nttp.sc.sg@bigsleep.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61...
| On 10 May 2005 Tom Moore entered spamcop.geeks and left
| news:d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net:
|
| > There is an RJ-45 jack too.  Probably has a cover over it...
|
| Regardless, you can just use a RJ-11 cable to connect the two.
| You only need RJ-45 for networking, or in the rare case you have more than
| 3 phone lines. Ethernet requires CAT5 twisted pair using (for TX and RX)
| pins 1 and 2, 3 and 6. Phone lines use pins 4 and 5, 3 and 6 (if two
| lines).
| I'm not sure how homes are usually wired for DSL, but I would assume you
| can filter line one (pins 4 and 5) for phone and use line two (pins 3 and
| 6) for the DSL.

The filters will have to be between the CAT5 cable and the phone equipment
as the DSL signal will be linked by 'cross talk' to the other (talk) lines.


From mikeyhsd at sport.rr.com  Wed May 11 09:19:37 2005
From: mikeyhsd at sport.rr.com (mikeyhsd)
Date: Wed May 11 09:20:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Why aren't my OE filters working?
References: <d5rj23$ro7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5t0p8$o66$1@news.spamcop.net>

OE has to download the message toi check the body.

you would be more successful in filtering IN the mail you want and leaving 
the rest for the trash.

mikeyhsd@sport.rr.com
"Heidi" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d5rj23$ro7$1@news.spamcop.net...
> No comments  on the mail client, I have no plans to change to a mac or
> Linux - if you make mail rules, they should work. I have one that says if
> the body contains "viagra" or "cialis" etc., do not download it from the
> server.  It's still downloading, anyone know why?
>
> 


From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Wed May 11 14:19:30 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Wed May 11 13:20:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Hardware Firewall
Message-ID: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>

Before re-connecting my PC to the cable modem, I am thinking of buying an 
appliance rather than rely on Windows Firewall and ZoneAlarm.

Would like recommendations on what to buy for a home-based system sitting on 
a cable modem network.

TIA


-- 
I Shave With Occams Razor
http://www.dwacon.com 


From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Wed May 11 11:28:07 2005
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Wed May 11 13:30:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-F69003.10280711052005@news.cesmail.net>

In article <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "Dwayne Conyers" <noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote:

> Would like recommendations on what to buy for a home-based system sitting on 
> a cable modem network.

Any of the Netgear, Linksys, or similar NAT router products are quite 
suitable.

I actually have two Linksys routers I'm looking to sell -- a wired-only 
one and a wired/wireless one. Email me if you're interested, I'd be 
willing to part with them for a reasonable price plus shipping. I'd be 
glad to send pictures and/or specs.

Cheers!

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed May 11 11:29:25 2005
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed May 11 13:30:06 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
In-Reply-To: <pete+usenet-F69003.10280711052005@news.cesmail.net>
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-F69003.10280711052005@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <d5tfcn$11i$1@news.spamcop.net>

Pete Stephenson wrote:
> In article <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>,
>  "Dwayne Conyers" <noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Would like recommendations on what to buy for a home-based system sitting on 
>>a cable modem network.
> 
> 
> Any of the Netgear, Linksys, or similar NAT router products are quite 
> suitable.
> 
> I actually have two Linksys routers I'm looking to sell -- a wired-only 
> one and a wired/wireless one. Email me if you're interested, I'd be 
> willing to part with them for a reasonable price plus shipping. I'd be 
> glad to send pictures and/or specs.
> 
> Cheers!
> 

I've used both US Robotics and Dlink routers, both of which include a quite 
adequate firewall.
From user at domain.invalid  Thu May 12 09:27:39 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Thu May 12 09:30:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
In-Reply-To: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d5vlkb$5s6$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 11.05.2005 12:19, Dwayne Conyers wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Before re-connecting my PC to the cable modem, I am thinking of buying an 
> appliance rather than rely on Windows Firewall and ZoneAlarm.
> 
> Would like recommendations on what to buy for a home-based system sitting on 
> a cable modem network.
> 
> TIA
> 
> 

A little pricey for the "home" but I've been using the Firebox 1000 with
much success.
From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Fri May 13 06:26:20 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Fri May 13 01:30:08 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Verizon DSL
References: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
	<d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net> <Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61>
	<d5ston$mkb$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9654E442EDE41blammo@216.154.195.61>

On 11 May 2005 Frog Prince entered spamcop.geeks and left
news:d5ston$mkb$1@news.spamcop.net: 

> The filters will have to be between the CAT5 cable and the phone
> equipment as the DSL signal will be linked by 'cross talk' to the
> other (talk) lines. 
> 

I disagree, homes properly wired with twisted pair cable are protected from 
cross talk. This is the whole reason for using UTP, the old POTS flat cable 
should be replaced with CAT5e and/or isolated with a better filter, such as 
the ones designed to filter security system lines.
The only reason they give you the individual filters to plug into each 
phone is to reduce their service calls. They used to run dedicated 
unfiltered lines for DSL, then when you wanted to move the modem somewhere 
else you had to wait around for the phone company to come and rewire your 
lines, the home kits eliminate this.
I read that old DSL modems where designed to run on line two, which would 
be the unfiltered line as I described above. I don't know if DSL modems now 
would be "backwards compatable", and it's possible that the modem might 
detect a DSL signal on the filtered line one anyway, so I don't know if 
that idea would work today, it probably depends on the modem and filter 
quality.
Now line one and line two are actually the same, with line one being 
filtered, so any phone device that looks for line two could possibly feed 
back noise from line two to line one (even if it were connected directly to 
a filter), or it could even get confused as to which line is off hook or 
ringing. This shouldn't hurt anything, but if it were a problem you would 
simply cut line two from that device.

-- 
| Ric
|
From eddie at eddie.web  Fri May 13 14:24:35 2005
From: eddie at eddie.web (eddie)
Date: Fri May 13 13:25:53 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Verizon DSL
References: <pan.2005.04.18.17.37.58.408000@eddie.web>
	<d5r9an$mjo$1@news.spamcop.net> <Xns9653F902787Fblammo@216.154.195.61>
	<d5ston$mkb$1@news.spamcop.net> <Xns9654E442EDE41blammo@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.13.17.24.34.548000@eddie.web>

On Fri, 13 May 2005 05:26:20 +0000, Blammo scratched out the following:

> On 11 May 2005 Frog Prince entered spamcop.geeks and left
> news:d5ston$mkb$1@news.spamcop.net:
> 
>> The filters will have to be between the CAT5 cable and the phone
>> equipment as the DSL signal will be linked by 'cross talk' to the other
>> (talk) lines.
>> 
>snip
> Now line one and line two are actually the same, with line one being
> filtered, so any phone device that looks for line two could possibly feed
> back noise from line two to line one (even if it were connected directly
> to a filter), or it could even get confused as to which line is off hook
> or ringing. This shouldn't hurt anything, but if it were a problem you
> would simply cut line two from that device.

Yup! The old system, which I had used what could be called "spatial"
multiplex - two separate drops - one twisted pair for the phone, the other
for the DSL.
Now, because of advances in technology, they can use frequency
multiplexing in which the phone line exists below 8KHz or so, and the DSL
component above 10KHz or so. Like different stations on a radio, the two
signals are separate and independent. The filters are to prevent
the loading of the twisted pair by the voice equipment which would reduce
the level of the higher-frequency DSL signals and lower the
signal-to-noise ratio. Ideally, a splitter on the outside of the house
would be better, with the lower frequency components going to the phone
system and the higher frequency components directed to the DSL modem.
What Verizon and others offer is quite good, and as you note, since most
modern phone lines use twisted pair which make excellent 72-ohm
transmission lines that do not radiate, the bandwidth is now way above the
original 8KHz and is actually closer to several megahertz, with very
little loss or radiation. Spread spectrum and other techniques make the
system quite workable, much better than the BPL idiocy proposed by the
power companies to attempt to do the same thing, but which would result in
a huge amount of radiation and a loss or impairment of ham radio and other
communications. As a Ham radio operator, I have checked Verizon's DSL
signals and I do not find any detectable leakage at any frequency, so I
hope that this puts BPL to rest.
BPL for those who are interested is Broadband over Power Lines - something
most of the world has already rejected for obvious reasons, but something
the US is/was still thinking about. Wherever it was tried, it failed.

-- 
Once movie theaters gave out steak knives
Today they confiscate them
From nobody at spamcop.net  Fri May 13 14:43:29 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (Spamvireslayer)
Date: Fri May 13 13:45:06 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Why aren't my OE filters working?
References: <d5rj23$ro7$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5rkcj$sds$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d62p1l$ocd$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message
news:d5rkcj$sds$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> I don't believe that OE's rules 'tell the truth' about their
> functionality.  I don't know what 'don't download it from the server'
> actually means in the context of OE's functionality.  [Added later:
> actually the rule is 'delete it from the server' and Tom Koch's site
> addresses the subject as well.]

There is a 'don't download from the server rule' but it doesn't work, apparently, it
has to download the message to read it.  I wanted to keep them on the server in the
[ridiculous] hope that reporting them as spam would make the Brightmail filters work
better - that doesn't seem to be happening either.
>
> So, let's forget about 'don't download from the server'.  That's not a
> good messagerule to make about looking for something in the body.  If
> you were willing to delete an item without it being seen, which is quite
> a different thing from not downloading from the server, that kind of
> rule would work -- but you might be deleting a perfectly good mail.

I'm willing to delete anything that contains 'viagra', cialis, online pharmacy, etc,
the problem is that even if you make the rule 'delete from the server' rather than
'don't download' it still downloads the message, and THEN deletes it from the server.
I don't even want to see this crap, not even in my trash.  I think your links prove
that the 'do not download' is completely useless.  His rules would be hard to apply,
because spammers don't use the same 'from' address, and they're starting to screw up
words in the subject to avoid filters.  So I either create a huge whitelist or go to
the web mail and delete before I download in OE.  Harrumph.  Thanks for the links
though, very helpful.


From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Fri May 13 14:46:47 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Fri May 13 13:50:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5vlkb$5s6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d62p64$ofv$1@news.spamcop.net>

My local BestBuy only had one box, the DCom firewall.  It seems sufficient 
to provide protection.

After installing the appliance, I'll prolly continue running ZoneAlarm until 
the license expires, then buy Norton AV and Firewall.

Now... comes the fun part of discovering if I can restore the OS with the 
installation CD or if I will wind up having to FDISK and Format C:

Sigh...


- - - - - - - - - - - -
Should a man answer the tears of his child or the orders of his President?
http://www.dwacon.com/publications/pater_familias.asp


From / at /.cn  Sat May 14 15:13:36 2005
From: / at /.cn (Petzl)
Date: Sat May 14 00:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5vlkb$5s6$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d62p64$ofv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d63ttn$fpj$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Dwayne Conyers" <noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message 
news:d62p64$ofv$1@news.spamcop.net...
> My local BestBuy only had one box, the DCom firewall.  It seems sufficient 
> to provide protection.
>
> After installing the appliance, I'll prolly continue running ZoneAlarm 
> until the license expires, then buy Norton AV and Firewall.
>
> Now... comes the fun part of discovering if I can restore the OS with the 
> installation CD or if I will wind up having to FDISK and Format C:
>
> Sigh...

Zone Alarm freeware is more than adequate as long as it is combined with

<http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp> Keep Windows UPDATED

<http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5> AVG 7.0 Free 
Edition" Anti-Virus
(Norton AV is ok but AVG is no slouch either)
<http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx> 
Check your computer for "SpyWare" (free MS Product)

<http://www.zonelabs.com/> a good firewall for windows(free version 
available)

<http://www.password-depot.com/news/v2.htm> Use a Password Saver on USB 
removable drive to store passwords 


From nobody at spamcop.net  Sat May 14 10:39:56 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (Dave Lerner)
Date: Sat May 14 09:40:09 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
 Re: Recommendation for store front/shopping cart, preferably Linux
 hosted
In-Reply-To: <d64m42$ris$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d64m42$ris$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d64v3d$vog$1@news.spamcop.net>

You might look at <http://oscommerce.com/>.  It's open source, PHP/MySQL.
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Sat May 14 21:25:39 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (PopTart)
Date: Sat May 14 16:30:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: FYI Domain Roundtable Conference
References: <d4mb7s$lj4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns9644A53FA989Eblammo@216.154.195.61> <d4o22r$q5o$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d65mrr$dtj$1@news.spamcop.net>

Pop wrote:

> To me, this looks -just like- a spam that worked!  Apparently it's OK to 
> advertise here, eh?  Long's it's something someone might be interested in?
> 
> I'm setting up a Zeerocks computer spam skills class; how many wish to sign 
> up?  Contact me at my_domain.asdf.biz.  Low rates available for signing up 
> early!
> 
> <g>

STFU troll.
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Sat May 14 16:41:35 2005
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Sat May 14 18:45:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5vlkb$5s6$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d62p64$ofv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-97FB06.15413514052005@news.cesmail.net>

In article <d62p64$ofv$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "Dwayne Conyers" <noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote:

> After installing the appliance, I'll prolly continue running ZoneAlarm until 
> the license expires, then buy Norton AV and Firewall.

Er, wot?

Get the freeware version of ZoneAlarm (available at download.com, as the 
links are tiny on the ZA website), and it works fine.

Don't buy Norton AV -- get Grisoft AVG at http://free.grisoft.com/ -- 
better protection, no cost. They have good pricing for the 
"professional" version, which has very little difference. I bought it 
simply to support the company.

Cheers!

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From skiwi at spamcop.net  Sat May 14 16:54:27 2005
From: skiwi at spamcop.net (Skiwi)
Date: Sat May 14 18:55:22 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Sick of Internet Destroyer?
Message-ID: <d65vjd$j88$1@news.spamcop.net>

http://funnyfox.org/

hehehehehehe...
From / at /.cn  Sun May 15 11:20:17 2005
From: / at /.cn (Petzl)
Date: Sat May 14 20:25:27 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5vlkb$5s6$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d62p64$ofv$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-97FB06.15413514052005@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <d664k8$m9h$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-97FB06.15413514052005@news.cesmail.net...
> In article <d62p64$ofv$1@news.spamcop.net>,
> "Dwayne Conyers" <noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote:
>
>> After installing the appliance, I'll prolly continue running ZoneAlarm 
>> until
>> the license expires, then buy Norton AV and Firewall.
>
> Er, wot?
>
> Get the freeware version of ZoneAlarm (available at download.com, as the
> links are tiny on the ZA website), and it works fine.
>
> Don't buy Norton AV -- get Grisoft AVG at http://free.grisoft.com/ -- 
> better protection, no cost. They have good pricing for the
> "professional" version, which has very little difference. I bought it
> simply to support the company.
>
> Cheers!

Sorry Pete trying out OE as a news reader (removed button)

Pete's views seem to be my findings also

Grisoft AVG (free version) seems to me to be MUCH less system heavy and at 
least as good as Norton AV if not better

The free version of Zone Alarm has never been compromised from outside 
attack

That said spyware programs "exe" type have been known to disable firewalls 
(both) hardware and software types during their installation.

While hardware Firewalls "double" protection of software (only) run types. 
they inevitably are also run by software!

You still need to have a "TEAM" of products to effectively stop hackers such 
as this signature advises All are EFFECTIVE freeware (MicroSoft you have 
already paid for)

Petzl
--
SECURE YOUR WINDOWS COMPUTER NOW!!
<http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp> Keep Windows UPDATED

<http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5> AVG 7.0 Free
Edition" Anti-Virus

<http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx>
Check your computer for "SpyWare" (free MS Product)

<http://www.zonelabs.com/> a good firewall for windows(free version
available)

<http://www.password-depot.com/news/v2.htm> Use a Password Saver on USB
removable drive to store passwords


From aunt.jemima at pancake.box  Sun May 15 00:41:24 2005
From: aunt.jemima at pancake.box (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Sat May 14 23:45:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Adobe Woes...
Message-ID: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>

Our Windows Server 2003 box suffered fatal errors when a user hacked our
server using DCOM exploit.

After investing in a hardware firewall to supplement the software firewall,
we were unable to repair the machine and after several attempts finally
reinstalled windows.

Our program files remain but are not accessible as the registry and user
accounts have changed.  We attempted to reinstall Acrobat 6.0 Standard from
CD but received an error:

Internal Error 2753. Dist_acrodist.exe

Any clues as to what is causing this abend?

TIA!

----- 
The Runaway Bride...
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709





From rcarlton at spamcop.net  Sat May 14 23:21:25 2005
From: rcarlton at spamcop.net (Rick Carlton)
Date: Sun May 15 01:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Adobe Woes...
In-Reply-To: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d66m8m$vul$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> Internal Error 2753. Dist_acrodist.exe
> 
> Any clues as to what is causing this abend?

Here's your answer:

http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/327197.html

Error "Internal error 2753 dist_acrodist.exe" occurs when you install 
Acrobat (6.0 on Windows)

Issue

When you try to install Adobe Acrobat, the installer returns the error 
"Internal error 2753 dist_acrodist.exe" and quits.

Detail

You may have recently reinstalled Windows.

Solutions

Do one or both of the following solutions:

Solution 1: Delete the Acrobat 6.0 folder, disable startup items, and 
install Acrobat.

Delete the Acrobat 6.0 folder from the Program Files folder, disable 
startup items, and then restart the computer and install Acrobat.

To disable startup items in Windows XP:

1. Quit all applications.

2. Choose Start > Run, and type msconfig in the Open box and then click OK.

3. In the System Configuration Utility dialog box, click the Startup 
tab, and then select Disable All.

4. Click OK, and then restart Windows.

To reenable the startup items after you're done installing Acrobat:

1. Choose Start > Run, and type msconfig in the Open box, and then click OK.

2. In the System Configuration Utility dialog box, click the Startup 
tab, and then select Enable All.

3. Click OK, and then restart Windows.

To disable startup items located in the Startup Folders in Windows 2000:

1. Quit all applications.

2 In Windows Explorer, move all icons and shortcuts from the following 
folders to another folder:

-- Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup

-- Documents and Settings \ [user profile] \Start Menu\Programs\Startup

3. Restart Windows .

To disable items specified in the registry to start automatically in 
Windows 2000:

1. Right-click the Taskbar, and choose Task Manager.

2. Click the Applications tab.

3. Select an application, and then click End Task.

To reenable the startup items after you're done installing Acrobat, move 
the icons and shortcuts back to their respective Startup folders.

Solution 2: Remove older versions of Acrobat and then install Acrobat.

If you have older versions of Acrobat installed, remove them using the 
Add/Remove Programs utility, and then install Acrobat 6.0. For 
instructions on how to remove Acrobat, see Related Records.

Background information

Files created during previous installations of Acrobat are not always 
removed when you reinstall Windows. These files may interfere with the 
installation of Acrobat.
From agent01413 at my-deja.com  Sun May 15 06:47:49 2005
From: agent01413 at my-deja.com (Socks the Whitehouse Cat)
Date: Sun May 15 01:50:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Adobe Woes...
References: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>

"Dwayne Conyers" <aunt.jemima@pancake.box> wrote in
news:d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net: 

> After investing in a hardware firewall to supplement the software
> firewall, we were unable to repair the machine and after several
> attempts finally reinstalled windows.

You just dont learn do you?  Install linux. Problem solved. MSFT is not 
intended for any machine connected to the internet.

-- 
See  NANAE kooks, including Barbara Schwarz:
http://www.morningmist.org/nanae/kookfaq.html
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Sun May 15 11:24:39 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Sun May 15 04:25:21 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Adobe Woes...
References: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <slrnd8e1q7.37m.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Sun, 15 May 2005 05:47:49 +0000 (UTC), Socks the Whitehouse Cat 
coughed into spamcop.geeks and left this in 
<Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>:

> You just dont learn do you?  Install linux. Problem solved.

Or FreeBSD. In fact just about any O/S that works on an x86 machine 
except Windows.

> MSFT is not intended for any machine connected to the internet.

Well, it is *intnded* for that purpose, but it certainly isn't safe!

-- 
Steve

Just remember: when you go to court, you are trusting your fate to
twelve people that weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty!
From avoozl at spamcop.net  Sun May 15 08:40:01 2005
From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby)
Date: Sun May 15 10:45:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Adobe Woes...
References: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <d67n3g$h64$1@news.spamcop.net>

Normally, I don't mind your posts.. but this is out of line.  If I wanted to read flames I'd go visit any web forum.

At least someone else tried to help her..

Chris

"Socks the Whitehouse Cat" <agent01413@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61...

> You just dont learn do you?  Install linux. Problem solved. MSFT is not 
> intended for any machine connected to the internet.
> 
> -- 
> See  NANAE kooks, including Barbara Schwarz:
> http://www.morningmist.org/nanae/kookfaq.html
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sun May 15 16:07:48 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sun May 15 18:10:28 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Log looking
Message-ID: <d68h3o$1nd$1@news.spamcop.net>

I'm planning on playing with looking at some logs generated by my
BEFSR41 switchrouter - but I'm mostly planning on submitting them to
DShield [and/or MNW].  DShield wants them in a compatible format which
is done by their CVTWIN client, and that is enabled in one of 3 ways.
"You have a choice between using SNMP Trap Watcher, Kiwi Syslog Daemon,
or the Linksys LogViewer to capture the log information from your router
and write it to a disk file. They all work--the difference is whichever
one you prefer."  They are all free.

DShield has more screenshots of the Kiwi Syslog Daemon setup, and the
Kiwi's site has a lot of information
http://www.kiwisyslog.com/info_syslog.htm  that causes me to think that
those logs might be the most comfortable to look at or handle and has
the most tools or functions attached to it, if I feel like doing any of
that.

Aha!  I just went to MyNetWatchman and found that submission client also
accepts the Kiwi logs, so that will probably be the best choice.

Comments welcome.


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Sun May 15 19:59:54 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Sun May 15 19:00:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
Message-ID: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net>

Does anyone have some rules that can be used with SpamAssasin to detect 
and reject both the Sober-p spam and the backscatter from it?

As near as I can tell, the only thing constant with it is that it has a 
set of URLs that the spam contains.

Thanks,
-John
From aunt.jemima at pancake.box  Sun May 15 20:15:51 2005
From: aunt.jemima at pancake.box (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Sun May 15 19:20:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Adobe Woes...
References: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net> <d66m8m$vul$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d68l76$4r8$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Rick Carlton" <rcarlton@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d66m8m$vul$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Dwayne Conyers wrote:
>> Internal Error 2753. Dist_acrodist.exe
>>
>> Any clues as to what is causing this abend?
>
> Here's your answer:
>
> http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/327197.html

Thanks.

The adobe site should be better organized.

Much appreciated!

-- 
The Runaway Bride...
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709



From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Sun May 15 21:33:54 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Pop)
Date: Sun May 15 20:35:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: FYI Domain Roundtable Conference
References: <d4mb7s$lj4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns9644A53FA989Eblammo@216.154.195.61> <d4o22r$q5o$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d65mrr$dtj$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d68ppj$1uf$1@news.spamcop.net>

And another knee-jerker who jumps off cliffs, 
pretended:

"PopTart" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d65mrr$dtj$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Pop wrote:
>
>> To me, this looks -just like- a spam that worked! 
>> Apparently it's OK to advertise here, eh?  Long's 
>> it's something someone might be interested in?
>>
>> I'm setting up a Zeerocks computer spam skills 
>> class; how many wish to sign up?  Contact me at 
>> my_domain.asdf.biz.  Low rates available for signing 
>> up early!
>>
>> <g>
>
> STFU troll.

but can't be bothered to see what the "real" issues 
were.  Or weren't.  Probably has no reading 
comprehension abilities anyway.

So long Stu 


From user at domain.invalid  Sun May 15 21:30:16 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Sun May 15 21:30:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Adobe Woes...
In-Reply-To: <Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
References: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <d68t2a$3tf$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 15.05.2005 00:47, Socks the Whitehouse Cat wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> "Dwayne Conyers" <aunt.jemima@pancake.box> wrote in
> news:d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net: 
> 
>> After investing in a hardware firewall to supplement the software
>> firewall, we were unable to repair the machine and after several
>> attempts finally reinstalled windows.
> 
> You just dont learn do you?  Install linux. Problem solved. MSFT is not 
> intended for any machine connected to the internet.
> 

If that were the case I wouldn't have any clients .. shhhhh .. go away
will ya ??!! ;-)
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sun May 15 19:45:49 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sun May 15 21:45:10 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: german spam
References: <d68qu4$2l4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68s82$3fu$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68t8u$46k$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d68tsg$4il$1@news.spamcop.net>

posted in sc & geeks f/up geeks

John E. Malmberg wrote:
> See my post in .geeks if someone has found a SpamAssassin rule to
> detect it and backscatter from the mail servers that are abusively
> bouncing it.

The other day a much detested trollish nanae individual named Moris came
up with an excellent regex creation for some issue that was nanae
posted.  Everyone was astounded that Moris was actually good for
something.

Maybe if you put the item [propagation's headers & body] in sightings
and then asked about it in nanae, Moris would come up with a regex for
it.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Sun May 15 22:59:22 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Sun May 15 22:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: german spam
In-Reply-To: <d68tsg$4il$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d68qu4$2l4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68s82$3fu$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68t8u$46k$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68tsg$4il$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d68upq$5ah$1@news.spamcop.net>

Mike Easter wrote:
> posted in sc & geeks f/up geeks
> 
> John E. Malmberg wrote:
> 
>>See my post in .geeks if someone has found a SpamAssassin rule to
>>detect it and backscatter from the mail servers that are abusively
>>bouncing it.
>  
> The other day a much detested trollish nanae individual named Moris came
> up with an excellent regex creation for some issue that was nanae
> posted.  Everyone was astounded that Moris was actually good for
> something.
> 
> Maybe if you put the item [propagation's headers & body] in sightings
> and then asked about it in nanae, Moris would come up with a regex for
> it.

Going from my foggy memory, I was thinking that there were at least 5 
variations of it, and the list operator was blocking by subject as they 
were seeing it from more I.P. addresses than I was.  Then it morphed and 
and a new subject and URL showed up.

So I was hoping that someone had a better understanding of this worm.

It is tripping enough of the spam detection to get into the moderator 
queue, but not enough for it to reliably classify it.

-John
From not at home.today  Mon May 16 04:18:58 2005
From: not at home.today (Ant)
Date: Sun May 15 22:20:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: german spam
References: <d68qu4$2l4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68s82$3fu$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68t8u$46k$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68tsg$4il$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68upq$5ah$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d68vv8$640$1@news.spamcop.net>

"John E. Malmberg" wrote:

> Going from my foggy memory, I was thinking that there were at least 5
> variations of it, and the list operator was blocking by subject as they
> were seeing it from more I.P. addresses than I was.  Then it morphed and
> and a new subject and URL showed up.
>
> So I was hoping that someone had a better understanding of this worm.

See Internet Storm Center for more info on this, including Postfix
and SA rules:
http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2005-05-15


From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Mon May 16 00:23:13 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Sun May 15 23:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: german spam
In-Reply-To: <d68vv8$640$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d68qu4$2l4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68s82$3fu$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68t8u$46k$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68tsg$4il$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68upq$5ah$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68vv8$640$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d693n2$8j3$1@news.spamcop.net>

Ant wrote:
> "John E. Malmberg" wrote:
> 
>>Going from my foggy memory, I was thinking that there were at least 5
>>variations of it, and the list operator was blocking by subject as they
>>were seeing it from more I.P. addresses than I was.  Then it morphed and
>>and a new subject and URL showed up.
>>
>>So I was hoping that someone had a better understanding of this worm.
>  
> See Internet Storm Center for more info on this, including Postfix
> and SA rules:
> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2005-05-15

Thanks, those cover the direct sources.  Anyone know how to get 
SpamAssasin to shake them out of the body or attachments?

The blowback from auto-responders and bouncing is starting to increase.

-John


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Mon May 16 12:23:36 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Mon May 16 05:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Sun, 15 May 2005 18:59:54 -0400, John E. Malmberg coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> Does anyone have some rules that can be used with SpamAssasin to detect 
> and reject both the Sober-p spam and the backscatter from it?

If you want to use SA to reject mails then I'm assuming you're using it 
as a milter on a Unix system. This being the case, why not just use an 
anti-virus such as ClamAV and have done with it?

-- 
Steve

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Mon May 16 03:39:51 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Mon May 16 05:40:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Log looking
References: <d68h3o$1nd$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d69pla$mea$1@news.spamcop.net>

Mike Easter wrote:
> I'm planning on playing with looking at some logs generated by my
> BEFSR41 switchrouter -

> "You have a choice between using SNMP Trap Watcher, Kiwi Syslog
> Daemon, or the Linksys LogViewer

I installed the Kiwi, but I didn't like the way the interface
worked/looked.

The Linksys viewer wouldn't install - but that didn't matter much to me
because it wouldn't handle submitting to MNW or DShield.

I found out that WallWatcher would be able to feed both MNW & DSh and I
like the way its interface works much better.

http://www.wallwatcher.com/


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Mon May 16 09:19:25 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Mon May 16 08:20:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2005 18:59:54 -0400, John E. Malmberg coughed into 
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net>:
> 
>>Does anyone have some rules that can be used with SpamAssasin to detect 
>>and reject both the Sober-p spam and the backscatter from it?
> 
> If you want to use SA to reject mails then I'm assuming you're using it 
> as a milter on a Unix system. This being the case, why not just use an 
> anti-virus such as ClamAV and have done with it?

I am not the sysadmin of the systems that are under attack, and all I 
know about the systems is that they are using SpamAssasin as part of 
their Anti-spam defenses.

Right now the problem no longer appears to be the direct delivery of the 
spew, but the backscatter from the sites that are auto-responding to it.

-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only

From user at domain.invalid  Mon May 16 09:28:17 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Mon May 16 09:30:05 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d6a75g$tu3$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 16.05.2005 04:23, Steven Maesslein wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On Sun, 15 May 2005 18:59:54 -0400, John E. Malmberg coughed into 
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net>:
> 
>> Does anyone have some rules that can be used with SpamAssasin to detect 
>> and reject both the Sober-p spam and the backscatter from it?
> 
> If you want to use SA to reject mails then I'm assuming you're using it 
> as a milter on a Unix system. This being the case, why not just use an 
> anti-virus such as ClamAV and have done with it?
> 

Was about to post the same thought as I run ClamAV and it traps those
emails just fine and dandy. Nary a one slips by.
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Mon May 16 16:29:24 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Mon May 16 09:30:08 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd8h81k.s0o.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:19:25 -0400, John E. Malmberg coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> I am not the sysadmin of the systems that are under attack,

Can you not direct hir here?

> and all I know about the systems is that they are using SpamAssasin as 
> part of their Anti-spam defenses.

If SA ia /all/ they're using then you really ought to try and point the 
sysadmin here...

> Right now the problem no longer appears to be the direct delivery of the 
> spew, but the backscatter from the sites that are auto-responding to it.

Those sites can be blocked by IP address...

-- 
Steve

FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION. It comes bundled with Microsoft software.
From user at domain.invalid  Mon May 16 10:03:55 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Mon May 16 10:05:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd8h81k.s0o.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8h81k.s0o.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d6a988$vfb$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 16.05.2005 08:29, Steven Maesslein wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On Mon, 16 May 2005 08:19:25 -0400, John E. Malmberg coughed into 
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net>:
> 
>> I am not the sysadmin of the systems that are under attack,
> 
> Can you not direct hir here?
> 
>> and all I know about the systems is that they are using SpamAssasin as 
>> part of their Anti-spam defenses.
> 
> If SA ia /all/ they're using then you really ought to try and point the 
> sysadmin here...
> 
>> Right now the problem no longer appears to be the direct delivery of the 
>> spew, but the backscatter from the sites that are auto-responding to it.
> 
> Those sites can be blocked by IP address...
> 


Just ONE sample taken from my ClamAV log:

+++ Started at Sun May  8 03:31:23 2005
clamd daemon 0.80 (OS: freebsd4.7, ARCH: i386, CPU: i386)
Log file size limited to 1048576 bytes.
Running as user clamav (UID 106, GID 106)
Reading databases from /usr/local/share/clamav
NOTE: ==> Protecting against 34304 viruses.
Unix socket file /var/run/clamav/clamd
Setting connection queue length to 15
Archive: Archived file size limit set to 10485760 bytes.
Archive: Recursion level limit set to 5.
Archive: Files limit set to 1000.
Archive: Compression ratio limit set to 250.
Archive support enabled.
Archive: RAR support disabled.
Portable Executable support enabled.
Mail files support enabled.
OLE2 support enabled.
HTML support enabled.
Self checking every 1800 seconds.
stream: Worm.Sober.P FOUND
No stats for Database check - forcing reload
Reading databases from /usr/local/share/clamav
Database correctly reloaded (34304 viruses)
SelfCheck: Database status OK.
stream: Worm.Sober.P FOUND
stream: Worm.Sober.P FOUND
SelfCheck: Database status OK.


Sober.P et al are resting somewhere in magnetic purgatory. 'nuff said. ;-)

From SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com  Mon May 16 11:42:57 2005
From: SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com (Brian (SnSR))
Date: Mon May 16 13:45:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
In-Reply-To: <d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6am3n$96o$1@news.spamcop.net>

John E. Malmberg wrote:
> Steven Maesslein wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 15 May 2005 18:59:54 -0400, John E. Malmberg coughed into 
>> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net>:
>>
>>> Does anyone have some rules that can be used with SpamAssasin to 
>>> detect and reject both the Sober-p spam and the backscatter from it?
>>
>>
>> If you want to use SA to reject mails then I'm assuming you're using 
>> it as a milter on a Unix system. This being the case, why not just use 
>> an anti-virus such as ClamAV and have done with it?
> 
> 
> I am not the sysadmin of the systems that are under attack, and all I 
> know about the systems is that they are using SpamAssasin as part of 
> their Anti-spam defenses.
> 
> Right now the problem no longer appears to be the direct delivery of the 
> spew, but the backscatter from the sites that are auto-responding to it.
> 
> -John
> wb8tyw@qsl.network
> Personal Opinion Only
> 

SpamAssasin team has just updated the filters to deal with the German spam.
From user at domain.invalid  Mon May 16 14:12:56 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Mon May 16 14:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
In-Reply-To: <d6am3n$96o$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6am3n$96o$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6anqr$aq5$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 16.05.2005 12:42, Brian (SnSR) wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> John E. Malmberg wrote:
>> Steven Maesslein wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2005 18:59:54 -0400, John E. Malmberg coughed into 
>>> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net>:
>>>
>>>> Does anyone have some rules that can be used with SpamAssasin to 
>>>> detect and reject both the Sober-p spam and the backscatter from it?
>>>
>>>
>>> If you want to use SA to reject mails then I'm assuming you're using 
>>> it as a milter on a Unix system. This being the case, why not just use 
>>> an anti-virus such as ClamAV and have done with it?
>> 
>> 
>> I am not the sysadmin of the systems that are under attack, and all I 
>> know about the systems is that they are using SpamAssasin as part of 
>> their Anti-spam defenses.
>> 
>> Right now the problem no longer appears to be the direct delivery of the 
>> spew, but the backscatter from the sites that are auto-responding to it.
>> 
>> -John
>> wb8tyw@qsl.network
>> Personal Opinion Only
>> 
> 
> SpamAssasin team has just updated the filters to deal with the German spam.

Where are the updated filters to be found or do I have to do a full
upgrade from 3.0.1 to 3.0.3 like I had to do previously.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Mon May 16 17:51:53 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (Ellen)
Date: Mon May 16 16:55:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6am3n$96o$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6anqr$aq5$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6b1aj$h5p$1@news.spamcop.net>




"User" <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
news:d6anqr$aq5$1@news.spamcop.net...
> On 16.05.2005 12:42, Brian (SnSR) wrote:
>
>
> Where are the updated filters to be found or do I have to do a full
> upgrade from 3.0.1 to 3.0.3 like I had to do previously.


http://mailscanner.prolocation.net/german.cf

Ellen


From user at domain.invalid  Mon May 16 18:13:17 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Mon May 16 18:15:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: sober-p SpamAssasin Rules?
In-Reply-To: <d6b1aj$h5p$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d68k9b$3uf$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8gpko.3d7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6a34d$rd8$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6am3n$96o$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6anqr$aq5$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6b1aj$h5p$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6b5t5$kas$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 16.05.2005 15:51, Ellen wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> "User" <user@domain.invalid> wrote in message
> news:d6anqr$aq5$1@news.spamcop.net...
>> On 16.05.2005 12:42, Brian (SnSR) wrote:
>>
>>
>> Where are the updated filters to be found or do I have to do a full
>> upgrade from 3.0.1 to 3.0.3 like I had to do previously.
> 
> 
> http://mailscanner.prolocation.net/german.cf
> 
> Ellen
> 
> 

Thanks, I'll save that just in case ClamAV starts acting up but so far
we're 100%.

From / at /.cn  Tue May 17 10:53:19 2005
From: / at /.cn (Petzl)
Date: Mon May 16 19:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d664k8$m9h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6ameh$914$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6bbpr$nr4$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Ilgaz" <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d6ameh$914$2@news.spamcop.net...
> On 2005-05-15 03:20:17 +0300, "Petzl" </@/.cn> said:
>
>>
>>
>> Grisoft AVG (free version) seems to me to be MUCH less system heavy and 
>> at least as good as Norton AV if not better
>>
>> The free version of Zone Alarm has never been compromised from outside 
>> attack
>>
>> That said spyware programs "exe" type have been known to disable 
>> firewalls (both) hardware and software types during their installation.
>>
>> While hardware Firewalls "double" protection of software (only) run 
>> types. they inevitably are also run by software!
>>
>> You still need to have a "TEAM" of products to effectively stop hackers 
>> such as this signature advises All are EFFECTIVE freeware (MicroSoft you 
>> have already paid for)
>>
>> Petzl
>
> I am still fixing my brothers XP SP2 here, couldn't stand not saying that 
> the "ms anti spyware" rocks. They simply acquired from a company (as 
> usual), use it before some Redmond freaks "makes it better"
>
> I am not telling anything for sure but that machine I am trying to fix 
> which had p2p worm had AVG 6 Free which is "gone". Of course some morons 
> used the poor XP, not sure what they did to manage such thing.
>
> Hope nobody shoots me, I am a poor OS X user not touching win32 for 2 
> years.
>
> Seeing that "thing" acting like a computer, I am happy I didn't :)
>
> If just mac zealots didn't exist.
>
> Ilgaz

Once a machine has been "zombied" it is best to format and start again! 
Saving what files you/he needs first. As well as upgrading home security

Already *ALL* information on that machine such as passwords, bank accounts, 
email,phone Numbers/Home addresses of oneselves and friends, , etc have been 
made available to many many hackers, spammers, home invaders, etc (I take 
it, it took his ISP to tell him? They would most likely take months to do 
so)

The fact is if someone activates a "exe" program it can do many things to 
override and perhaps shutdown *all* and any security programs (at worst 
scenario). If using the "team" of programs from my signature this is 
extremely unlikely to happen

AVG 6 has been outdated now for months (since last year maybe more?) Any/All 
Virus program's (such as AVG 7) needs to give *real-time protection* and 
*automatic updates* (AVG 7 does all of this an excellent program even if it 
is free)

"MS antiSpyware" is a Windows genuine part which offers "Real-time 
protection" and also allows automatic updates of latest definitions. It does 
not hurt to use other programs such as "Ad-Aware" (also an exellent free 
program) to double-check particularly after the barn door has been left open

Re-format *is* what is needed for your brothers machine (maybe even buy a 
new one) as well as ensuring he copies my signature links so his future PC's 
life is kept secure

Petzl
--
SECURE YOUR WINDOWS COMPUTER NOW!!
<http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/en/default.asp> Keep Windows UPDATED

<http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5> AVG 7.0 Free 
Edition" Anti-Virus

<http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx> 
Check your computer for "SpyWare" (free MS Product)

<http://www.zonelabs.com/> a good firewall for windows(free version 
available)

<http://www.password-depot.com/news/v2.htm> Use a Password Saver on USB 
removable drive to store passwords



From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Tue May 17 12:15:39 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Tue May 17 05:20:07 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d664k8$m9h$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6ameh$914$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6bbpr$nr4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd8jdhr.39p.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Tue, 17 May 2005 09:53:19 +1000, Petzl coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
left this in <d6bbpr$nr4$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> Re-format *is* what is needed for your brothers machine (maybe even buy a 
> new one)

No need to buy a new machine but hooking the HDD up to the Mac (which I 
assume also uses IDE drives) and running (as root) something like this 
in a console should do it:

# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ad1

NB: this assumes that the disk is connected as the slave on the primary 
IDE bus and that MacOS X uses the same notation as FreeBSD for disk 
device nodes. RTFM just in case...

All it does is fill the disk up with zeroes, clobbering absolutely 
everything including any bootsector code, MBR nasties etc.

-- 
Steve

Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas
are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
             -- Howard Aiken
From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Tue May 17 17:22:36 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Tue May 17 16:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] HP Laserjet 1000
Message-ID: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>

Since rebuilding my PC and reintsalling Windows Server 2003, my USB based Epson printer works fine, but my USB based LJ 1000 does not.

I tried reinstallign the driver which resulted in a test page successfully printing, but then for some reason the install self-launched a 2nd time and wiped out the driver.  

Successive reboots and unintall/reinstall can't get it to print.

Any ideas?  HP tech support is stinging me along...

TIA


-- 
The Runaway Bride Shoppe
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709

From MikeE at ster.invalid  Tue May 17 14:34:15 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Tue May 17 16:35:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6dkg9$68l$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
Content-Type: text/html;



-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Wed May 18 00:14:58 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Tue May 17 17:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd8knmi.shb.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Tue, 17 May 2005 16:22:36 -0400, Dwayne Conyers coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>:

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=3DGENERATOR>
>
> {snip rest of unreadable stuff}

???

-- 
Steve

Individuals who make their abodes in vitreous edifices would be well
advised to refrain from catapulting projectiles.
From aunt.jemima at pancake.box  Tue May 17 20:39:41 2005
From: aunt.jemima at pancake.box (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Tue May 17 19:40:17 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8knmi.shb.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d6dvbq$em5$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Steven Maesslein" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message 
news:slrnd8knmi.shb.nobody@127.0.0.1...
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 16:22:36 -0400, Dwayne Conyers coughed into
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>:
>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=3DGENERATOR>
>>
>> {snip rest of unreadable stuff}


SIGH...

I don't get this... I KNOW that I set Outlook Express to TEXT ONLY.  I'm 
beginning to think this thing is haunted.

Think maybe I should to FDISK FORMAT C: and load Linux or something...

GRRRRRRRRRRRR !!!

















From MikeE at ster.invalid  Tue May 17 20:39:22 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Tue May 17 22:40:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8knmi.shb.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6dvbq$em5$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6e9sr$lg3$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> I don't get this... I KNOW that I set Outlook Express to TEXT ONLY.
> I'm beginning to think this thing is haunted.

There's a setting place for news and a setting place for mail.

When tinkering with plaintext settings I have mistakenly set for mail
instead of news or vice versa.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com  Wed May 18 01:35:56 2005
From: zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com (John Zitterkopf)
Date: Wed May 18 03:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe no longer working... Any ideas?
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5hrlm$os0$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net>


> At the top of the recipe you are testing put:
>
>   VERBOSE=yes
>
[snip]
>   procmail test.rc <testmessage
>
> or to pipe the output from stderr and stdout into a pager:
>
>   procmail test.rc <testmessage 2>&1 |less

Thanks for the tips!

For whatever silly reason this receipe was causing the message to get dumped
automatically to my default inbox:

:0 H
* ^From:.*Malaysian.*Web
{
  :0
  { RULE="Mal aholes" }
  :0
  ! submit.7IlfBvLNMwHTXJLc@spam.spamcop.net
}

I can't for the life of me figure out why this rule is doing that... it is
formatted just like otherones as far as I know.

Ofcourse now when I repasted that line back into my .procmailrc... to get a
debug output from the log to post in this posting... it's working correctly.
Maybe a control or some other binary char was doing something screwy.
Cornfused ; but as long as it works.

Thanks a bunch!
Now if I can just block those damn Sober viruses before they get to my
spamcop account....

John


From zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com  Wed May 18 02:28:03 2005
From: zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com (John Zitterkopf)
Date: Wed May 18 04:30:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Procmail recipe for Sober-P
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5hrlm$os0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6euao$36g$1@news.spamcop.net>

"John Zitterkopf" <zitt@_no_spam_bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net...

> Now if I can just block those damn Sober viruses before they get to my
> spamcop account....

Likely not bullet proof; but here's a procmail rule based upon a
SpamAssassin rule found at:
http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2005-05-15


#sober
:0
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Armenian Genocide Plagues Ankara
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Augen auf
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Auslaender bevorzugt
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Auslaenderpolitik
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Blutige Selbstjustiz
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Can you believe this still happens today
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Deutsche Buerger
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Deutsche werden kuenftig beim
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Dresden 1945
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Dresden Bombing Is To Be Regretted Enormously
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Du wirst ausspioniert
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Du wirst zum Sklaven gemacht
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Gegen das Vergessen
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Graeberschaendung auf bundesdeutsche
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Hier sind wir Lehrer die einzigen Auslaender
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Jahre Befreiung
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Massenhafter Steuerbetrug durch auslaendische
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Multi\-Kulturell
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Osteuropaeer durch Fischer-Volmer Erlass
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Paranoider Deutschenmoerder kommt
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Polizei schlaegt Alarm
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Schily ueber Deutschland
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Transparenz ist das Mindeste
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Trotz Stellenabbau
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Tuerkei in die
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Turkish Tabloid Enrages Germany with Nazi Comparisons
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Verbrechen der deutschen Frau
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Volk wird nur zum zahlen
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Vorbildliche Aktion
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Whore Lived Like a German
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*wirst ausspioniert
{
  :0
  { VERBOSE=yes
    RULE="Sober Virus" }
  :0
  $VIRUSBOX
}

Hope it helps,
John


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Wed May 18 11:48:00 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Wed May 18 04:50:40 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd8knmi.shb.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d6dvbq$em5$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd8m0a0.3d0.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Tue, 17 May 2005 19:39:41 -0400, Dwayne Conyers coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d6dvbq$em5$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> I don't get this... I KNOW that I set Outlook Express to TEXT ONLY.  I'm 
> beginning to think this thing is haunted.

Given OE's security track record you might want to investigate a 
different MUA/newsreader without having to switch to Linux (although 
that would be no bad thing...) :)

Try http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird

-- 
Steve

Experience is something you don't get until just after
you need it.
From anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net  Wed May 18 10:03:03 2005
From: anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net (Anthony Edwards)
Date: Wed May 18 05:05:23 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <d5ter0$mv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6f0c7$4ah$1@news.spamcop.net>

On Wed, 11 May 2005 13:19:30 -0400, Dwayne Conyers
<noah.boddie@newsgroup.nospam> wrote:
> Before re-connecting my PC to the cable modem, I am thinking of buying an 
> appliance rather than rely on Windows Firewall and ZoneAlarm.
>
> Would like recommendations on what to buy for a home-based system sitting on 
> a cable modem network.

My personal recommmendation, and what I use myself on my home network:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/vpndevc/ps2030/ps2031/index.html

A little more expensive than most "home user" marketed firewall
products, but superb value for money in terms of what you get.

-- 
Anthony Edwards              *     anthony.edwards@uk.easynet.net
Abuse Team Manager           *     Tel: 0800 053 0588
Easynet Ltd                  *     DDI: 0161 227 0707
http://www.uk.easynet.net    *     Fax: 0845 333 4503
From Rick0.merrill at NOSPAMgmail.com  Wed May 18 11:15:59 2005
From: Rick0.merrill at NOSPAMgmail.com (Rick Merrill)
Date: Wed May 18 10:20:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Mounting CB radio in car?
In-Reply-To: <d37m6l$7e7$2@news.spamcop.net>
References: <pete+usenet-D17B34.21574907042005@news.cesmail.net>
	<d37m6l$7e7$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6fims$g89$1@news.spamcop.net>

Rick Carlton wrote:

> Pete Stephenson wrote:
> 
>> Any suggestions on where to install the radio and how to go about 
>> doing the actual installation?
> 
> 
> 
> Does thee haandset for the CB act as a remote for the head unit?
> 
> If so, what about under one of the seats?

That's what I suggest: put it under the seat and get the CB that has all 
the controls on the handset. Better yet, get a hands free set.
From Rick0.merrill at NOSPAMgmail.com  Wed May 18 11:22:54 2005
From: Rick0.merrill at NOSPAMgmail.com (Rick Merrill)
Date: Wed May 18 10:25:13 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: german spam
In-Reply-To: <d693n2$8j3$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d68qu4$2l4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68s82$3fu$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68t8u$46k$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68tsg$4il$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68upq$5ah$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68vv8$640$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d693n2$8j3$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6fj3r$gjl$1@news.spamcop.net>

John E. Malmberg wrote:

> Ant wrote:
> 
>> "John E. Malmberg" wrote:
>>
>>> Going from my foggy memory, I was thinking that there were at least 5
>>> variations of it, and the list operator was blocking by subject as they
>>> were seeing it from more I.P. addresses than I was.  Then it morphed and
>>> and a new subject and URL showed up.
>>>
>>> So I was hoping that someone had a better understanding of this worm.
>>
>>  
>> See Internet Storm Center for more info on this, including Postfix
>> and SA rules:
>> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2005-05-15
> 
> 
> Thanks, those cover the direct sources.  Anyone know how to get 
> SpamAssasin to shake them out of the body or attachments?
> 
> The blowback from auto-responders and bouncing is starting to increase.

Do you not use a firewall or spam filter like Brightmail?

From rcarlton at spamcop.net  Wed May 18 10:15:19 2005
From: rcarlton at spamcop.net (Rick Carlton)
Date: Wed May 18 12:20:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
In-Reply-To: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6fpmo$kmd$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> Since rebuilding my PC and reintsalling Windows Server 2003, my USB based Epson printer works fine, but my USB based LJ 1000 does not.
> 
> I tried reinstallign the driver which resulted in a test page successfully printing, but then for some reason the install self-launched a 2nd time and wiped out the driver.  
> 
> Successive reboots and unintall/reinstall can't get it to print.
> 
> Any ideas?  HP tech support is stinging me along...


Make sure that the Print Spooler service is running.

Also, if you've installed Windows Server 2003 SSP1, make sure that the 
Firewall is disabled while running the installer.
From rcarlton at spamcop.net  Wed May 18 10:16:53 2005
From: rcarlton at spamcop.net (Rick Carlton)
Date: Wed May 18 12:20:06 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
In-Reply-To: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6fppm$kmd$2@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> Since rebuilding my PC and reintsalling Windows Server 2003, my USB based Epson printer works fine, but my USB based LJ 1000 does not.
> 
> I tried reinstallign the driver which resulted in a test page successfully printing, but then for some reason the install self-launched a 2nd time and wiped out the driver.  
> 
> Successive reboots and unintall/reinstall can't get it to print.
> 
> Any ideas?  HP tech support is stinging me along...

Shoot, hit "Post" too soon.

Also, for grins - and please humor me - try unplugging the Epson and 
attaching the HP with the same cable and port, just to be sure.

And remember to run the HP installer and plug in the printer while the 
installer is running - not before.

"Play, _then_ plug"    ;-)
From user at domain.invalid  Wed May 18 13:00:03 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Wed May 18 13:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
In-Reply-To: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6fs40$m3o$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 17.05.2005 15:22, Dwayne Conyers wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Since rebuilding my PC and reintsalling Windows Server 2003, my USB based Epson printer works fine, but my USB based LJ 1000 does not.
> 
> I tried reinstallign the driver which resulted in a test page successfully printing, but then for some reason the install self-launched a 2nd time and wiped out the driver.  
> 
> Successive reboots and unintall/reinstall can't get it to print.
> 
> Any ideas?  HP tech support is stinging me along...
> 
> TIA
> 
> 

No problem reading this in Thunderbird. For those that can't, here it is:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Since rebuilding my PC and reintsalling Windows Server 2003, my USB
based Epson printer works fine, but my USB based LJ 1000 does not.

I tried reinstallign the driver which resulted in a test page
successfully printing, but then for some reason the install
self-launched a 2nd time and wiped out the driver.

Successive reboots and unintall/reinstall can't get it to print.

Any ideas?  HP tech support is stinging me along...

TIA


-- The Runaway Bride Shoppe http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709

---------------------------------------------------------------------
From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Wed May 18 14:54:50 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Wed May 18 13:55:06 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6fpmo$kmd$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6fvhd$sk6$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Rick Carlton" <rcarlton@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d6fpmo$kmd$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Dwayne Conyers wrote:
>> Since rebuilding my PC and reintsalling Windows Server 2003, my USB based 
>> Epson printer works fine, but my USB based LJ 1000 does not.
>>
>> I tried reinstallign the driver which resulted in a test page 
>> successfully printing, but then for some reason the install self-launched 
>> a 2nd time and wiped out the driver.  Successive reboots and 
>> unintall/reinstall can't get it to print.
>>
>> Any ideas?  HP tech support is stinging me along...
>
>
> Make sure that the Print Spooler service is running.
>
> Also, if you've installed Windows Server 2003 SSP1, make sure that the 
> Firewall is disabled while running the installer.


Interesting... I had a 3rd CD-RW on my box that I had pulled for use with my 
laptop.  When I plugged it *back* into my Server, the system suddenly 
recognized the HPLJ 1000!

The system actually deactivated it in CPL and created a new one, but I am 
not complaining... and I also will not unplug that extra drive again...


-- 
The Runaway Bride Shoppe
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709



From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed May 18 15:18:21 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed May 18 14:20:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: HP Laserjet 1000
References: <d6djql$5f4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6fpmo$kmd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6fvhd$sk6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6g0td$tbp$1@news.spamcop.net>



Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> Interesting... I had a 3rd CD-RW on my box that I had pulled for use
> with my laptop.  When I plugged it *back* into my Server, the system
> suddenly recognized the HPLJ 1000!
>

Congrats on finding a new M$ "feature" ;-)


From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Wed May 18 16:05:26 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Wed May 18 16:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: german spam
References: <d68qu4$2l4$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68s82$3fu$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68t8u$46k$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68tsg$4il$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d68upq$5ah$1@news.spamcop.net> <d68vv8$640$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d693n2$8j3$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6fj3r$gjl$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <XSnmgwX4BZDE@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <d6fj3r$gjl$1@news.spamcop.net>,
  Rick Merrill <Rick0.merrill@NOSPAMgmail.com> writes:
> John E. Malmberg wrote:
>
>> Ant wrote:
>>
>>> "John E. Malmberg" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Going from my foggy memory, I was thinking that there were at least 5
>>>> variations of it, and the list operator was blocking by subject as they
>>>> were seeing it from more I.P. addresses than I was.  Then it morphed and
>>>> and a new subject and URL showed up.
>>>>
>>>> So I was hoping that someone had a better understanding of this worm.
>>>
>>>
>>> See Internet Storm Center for more info on this, including Postfix
>>> and SA rules:
>>> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2005-05-15
>>
>>
>> Thanks, those cover the direct sources.  Anyone know how to get
>> SpamAssasin to shake them out of the body or attachments?
>>
>> The blowback from auto-responders and bouncing is starting to increase.
>
> Do you not use a firewall or spam filter like Brightmail?

And how is either of those relevant to my receiving bounces because the worm
has forged my e-mail address?

If SpamAssasin could detect those mis-directed bounces, it could be used by a
mail server operator to reject them with a 550 for the first one from an I.P.
address and subsequent ones with a 4xx code with an error text of
"Virus did not come from this address/server, stop mailbombing messages to
forged addresses - Use SMTP rejects instead."

-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Wed May 18 16:35:16 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Wed May 18 18:40:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Log looking
References: <d68h3o$1nd$1@news.spamcop.net> <d69pla$mea$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6gfv5$9l9$1@news.spamcop.net>

Mike Easter wrote:
>> I'm planning on playing with looking at some logs generated by my
>> BEFSR41 switchrouter -

> I found out that WallWatcher would be able to feed both MNW & DSh and
> I like the way its interface works much better.
>
> http://www.wallwatcher.com/

The more I look at what WW can do/ is doing/, the better I like it.

<ww>
  provides filtering, immediate alerts, emailed alerts, historical
analysis, summaries, and charts
  filters let you choose what data and time periods to log, display,
analyze, and chart
  alerts offer real-time visual and audible signals of possible
intrusion attempts
  historical analysis helps you find patterns of recent intrusion
attempts
  summaries condense log histories for easier review
  user-selectable charts let you spot patterns of suspicious activities
</ww>

Presently I'm autofeeding DShield, not MNW, using WW2DShield.  DSh is
getting 35 million reportlines a day and has useful db/s.

There's also good/excellent WW support from Dan Tseng in a googlegroups
forum.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From aunt.jemima at pancake.box  Thu May 19 00:46:34 2005
From: aunt.jemima at pancake.box (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Wed May 18 23:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] avast!
Message-ID: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>

What do you guys think of avast! as compared to other anti-virus programs? 
I swapped it out from AVG7 but thinking of going back to AVG.



-- 
The Runaway Bride...
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709



From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Thu May 19 00:13:50 2005
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Thu May 19 02:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: avast!
References: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-545A20.23135018052005@news.cesmail.net>

In article <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "Dwayne Conyers" <aunt.jemima@pancake.box> wrote:

> What do you guys think of avast! as compared to other anti-virus programs? 
> I swapped it out from AVG7 but thinking of going back to AVG.

I know a few people who have used it, and really like it. I tried it 
out, but knew little about the company and had no experience with it, so 
I uninstalled it and stuck with AVG, a known entity.

That's not to say it's bad -- I know practically nothing about it. Just 
saying I know and like AVG. :)

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From devnull at spamcop.net  Thu May 19 08:03:17 2005
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Thu May 19 07:05:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: avast!
References: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-545A20.23135018052005@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <d6hrq3$92a$3@news.spamcop.net>


"Pete Stephenson"
|
| > What do you guys think of avast! as compared to other anti-virus
programs?
| > I swapped it out from AVG7 but thinking of going back to AVG.
|
| I know a few people who have used it, and really like it. I tried it
| out, but knew little about the company and had no experience with it, so
| I uninstalled it and stuck with AVG, a known entity.
|
| That's not to say it's bad -- I know practically nothing about it. Just
| saying I know and like AVG. :)
|
| -- 
| Pete Stephenson

Pete I though you were Mac only.  Is there a version of AVG for Macs?


From MikeE at ster.invalid  Thu May 19 10:49:10 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Thu May 19 12:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: avast!
References: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6ig26$m7k$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> What do you guys think of avast! as compared to other anti-virus
> programs? I swapped it out from AVG7 but thinking of going back to
> AVG.

Recent thread:

Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
Subject: avast!
Message-ID: <f_Tie.30113$sy6.11366@lakeread04>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 23:46:24 -0400

<24h>
What do you guys think of avast! as compared to other anti-virus
programs?

I swapped it out from AVG7 but thinking of going back to AVG.

---------------------
I like anything that don't require much input.  It does it's job and as
best as I can tell, it does it well.  It warns me of Virus attacks and
makes it easy to deal with it.  I am unaware of a simpler or more
efficient virus checker.

---------------------

I have been running Avast for about 3 months solo now and find it quite
adequate for my needs.  I tried the other 2 freebies for a few months
using them randomly and finally settled for Avast.  My decision was
based on resource consumption, auto update very regularly, and virtually
problem free.

---------------------

It's very good.  I prefer it over AVG myself, but with v.7 AVG is now
very easy to install with no fuss over having to register first or wait
on a number in your email.  For that reason alone I install it quite
frequently in consumers' machines for them.  But if I think they can
handle the responsibility of registering avast, I install that.

---------------------
 I've been using Avast for the past eighteen months, no problems, no
infections.  Settled on it after trialling AVG and NOD32.

The only drawback (IMHO) is the free version does not support a command
line scanner.

---------------------

I have just switched over to Avast from NAV in the last few weeks.  In
general, it seems O.K.

However, I have noticed one issue which I have also posted to the Avast
forum, which is very troublesome.

First my setup is as follows:
win xp pro, sp2, all latest patches
IBM R40 Thinkpad
Comcast "Gold Tier" 6mbps/768kbps, 768kbps = 96KBPS (KiloBytesPerSecond)

I have noticed that if I have outbound email scanning enabled, I only
get about 35-40KBPS transmit speed (as measured by NetPerSec).

If I disable outbound email scanning, I get around 83-85KBPS transmit
speed.

When I used NAV 2004, I would get around 92KBPS (I also get 92KBPS if I
use comcast webmail).

Anyone with the "gold" service care to check out my results to see if
they are reproducible?
</24h>

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Thu May 19 22:51:55 2005
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Fri May 20 00:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: avast!
References: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-545A20.23135018052005@news.cesmail.net>
	<d6hrq3$92a$3@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-80C7E1.21515519052005@news.cesmail.net>

In article <d6hrq3$92a$3@news.spamcop.net>,
 "Frog Prince" <devnull@spamcop.net> wrote:

> Pete I though you were Mac only.  Is there a version of AVG for Macs?

No, I also have a Windows machine.

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From jwjr at poSPAMSUCKSbox.com  Fri May 20 09:46:54 2005
From: jwjr at poSPAMSUCKSbox.com (J. Weaver Jr.)
Date: Fri May 20 08:50:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: avast!
In-Reply-To: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6km80$573$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> What do you guys think of avast! as compared to other anti-virus programs? 
> I swapped it out from AVG7 but thinking of going back to AVG.

we've been using it on all our machines here since November (IIRC), when 
the AVG7 upgrade broke on some of our old 98SE machines. (Isn't legacy 
support fun?)

No complaints about avast! whatsoever - it does its job, quickly, 
quietly, and well. The less-computer-comfortable around here really like 
the strong, manly voice that announces the virus updates. <smile>  -JW
From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Fri May 20 11:02:44 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Fri May 20 10:05:11 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: avast!
References: <d6h26m$naq$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6km80$573$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6kqm5$7r9$1@news.spamcop.net>


"J. Weaver Jr." <jwjr@poSPAMSUCKSbox.com> wrote in message 
news:d6km80$573$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Dwayne Conyers wrote:
>> What do you guys think of avast! as compared to other anti-virus 
>> programs? I swapped it out from AVG7 but thinking of going back to AVG.
>
> we've been using it on all our machines here since November (IIRC), when 
> the AVG7 upgrade broke on some of our old 98SE machines. (Isn't legacy 
> support fun?)
>
> No complaints about avast! whatsoever - it does its job, quickly, quietly, 
> and well. The less-computer-comfortable around here really like the 
> strong, manly voice that announces the virus updates. <smile>  -JW


I just need to figure out if registration is the trick to get the other 
service "providers" up and running...


-- 
The Runaway Bride Shoppe
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709



From devnull at spamcop.net  Fri May 20 18:34:49 2005
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Fri May 20 17:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6ll7g$p22$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Ilgaz" <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net...
| Amazing :)
|
| Reading NNTP servers guideline first, I saw "no spamming" and asked
| myself which moron would spam Spamcop nntp server...
|
| Well, got my answer. :)
|
| Isn't it a bit like a drug seller calling FBI to sell his drugs etc? ;)
|
| Ilgaz

In NC we've had a rash of incidents were folk up for drug hearings a) showed
up late (by 4 hours) for a hearing and b) had on their person 1) weapons 2)
drugs 3) cash from drug deals.

Most heart breaking was one mother who was attending a final TPR
(termination of parental rights) hearing a) stoned b) having drugs and drug
paraphernalia on her person.


From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Fri May 20 18:35:51 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Fri May 20 17:40:08 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6ll7i$p25$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Ilgaz" <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Amazing :)
>
> Reading NNTP servers guideline first, I saw "no spamming" and asked myself 
> which moron would spam Spamcop nntp server...
>
> Well, got my answer. :)
>
> Isn't it a bit like a drug seller calling FBI to sell his drugs etc? ;)
>
> Ilgaz

Would it be politically incorrect to suggest that these morons be rounded up 
and chained to the bottom of an empty swimming pool that is slowly filled 
with hydrochloric acid?


-- 
Should a man answer the tears of his child or the orders of his President?
http://www.dwacon.com/publications/pater_familias.asp


From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri May 20 15:53:06 2005
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri May 20 17:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
In-Reply-To: <d6ll7i$p25$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6ll7i$p25$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6lm81$po0$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> "Ilgaz" <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
> news:d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>Amazing :)
>>
>>Reading NNTP servers guideline first, I saw "no spamming" and asked myself 
>>which moron would spam Spamcop nntp server...
>>
>>Well, got my answer. :)
>>
>>Isn't it a bit like a drug seller calling FBI to sell his drugs etc? ;)
>>
>>Ilgaz
> 
> 
> Would it be politically incorrect to suggest that these morons be rounded up 
> and chained to the bottom of an empty swimming pool that is slowly filled 
> with hydrochloric acid?
> 
> 

Why waste the acid?  Just send them to war in Iraq.
From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Fri May 20 18:58:24 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Fri May 20 18:00:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6ll7i$p25$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6lm81$po0$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6lmhs$q0p$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:d6lm81$po0$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Dwayne Conyers wrote:
>> "Ilgaz" <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
>> news:d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>>>Amazing :)
>>>
>>>Reading NNTP servers guideline first, I saw "no spamming" and asked 
>>>myself which moron would spam Spamcop nntp server...
>>>
>>>Well, got my answer. :)
>>>
>>>Isn't it a bit like a drug seller calling FBI to sell his drugs etc? ;)
>>>
>>>Ilgaz
>>
>>
>> Would it be politically incorrect to suggest that these morons be rounded 
>> up and chained to the bottom of an empty swimming pool that is slowly 
>> filled with hydrochloric acid?
>>
>>
>
> Why waste the acid?  Just send them to war in Iraq.

Better Idea.  I guess I just thought the acid thing because sending spam to 
spamcop is a JACK-ACID thing to do...

------ 
...where women are angels and men are monsters
www.dwacon.com


From scamper at trisk.com  Fri May 20 21:52:38 2005
From: scamper at trisk.com (Garen Erdoisa)
Date: Fri May 20 22:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe for Sober-P
In-Reply-To: <d6euao$36g$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5hrlm$os0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6euao$36g$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6m7pm$4m5$1@news.spamcop.net>

John Zitterkopf wrote:
> "John Zitterkopf" <zitt@_no_spam_bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
> 
>>Now if I can just block those damn Sober viruses before they get to my
>>spamcop account....
> 
> 
> Likely not bullet proof; but here's a procmail rule based upon a
> SpamAssassin rule found at:
> http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2005-05-15
> 
> 
> #sober
> :0
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Armenian Genocide Plagues Ankara
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Augen auf
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Auslaender bevorzugt
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Auslaenderpolitik
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Blutige Selbstjustiz
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Can you believe this still happens today
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Deutsche Buerger
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Deutsche werden kuenftig beim
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Dresden 1945
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Dresden Bombing Is To Be Regretted Enormously
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Du wirst ausspioniert
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Du wirst zum Sklaven gemacht
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Gegen das Vergessen
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Graeberschaendung auf bundesdeutsche
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Hier sind wir Lehrer die einzigen Auslaender
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Jahre Befreiung
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Massenhafter Steuerbetrug durch auslaendische
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Multi\-Kulturell
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Osteuropaeer durch Fischer-Volmer Erlass
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Paranoider Deutschenmoerder kommt
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Polizei schlaegt Alarm
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Schily ueber Deutschland
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Transparenz ist das Mindeste
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Trotz Stellenabbau
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Tuerkei in die
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Turkish Tabloid Enrages Germany with Nazi Comparisons
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Verbrechen der deutschen Frau
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Volk wird nur zum zahlen
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Vorbildliche Aktion
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*Whore Lived Like a German
> * 1^0 ^Subject:.*wirst ausspioniert
> {
>   :0
>   { VERBOSE=yes
>     RULE="Sober Virus" }
>   :0
>   $VIRUSBOX
> }
> 
> Hope it helps,
> John
The above recipe will look for any of those subject patterns, and if it 
sees one will deliver the message to the file defined by $VIRUSBOX.

The following:

  :0
  $VIRUSBOX

Should be:

   :0:
   $VIRUSBOX

Note the 2nd colon.  This is needed to tell procmail to use an implied 
lockfile based on the filename contained in the $VIRUSBOX variable.

I would probabally write such a recipe as follows:
------------------------

FORMAIL=formail
DEFAULT=${HOME}/.mail/inbox

#sober
:0
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Armenian Genocide Plagues Ankara
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Augen auf
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Auslaender bevorzugt
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Auslaenderpolitik
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Blutige Selbstjustiz
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Can you believe this still happens today
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Deutsche Buerger
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Deutsche werden kuenftig beim
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Dresden 1945
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Dresden Bombing Is To Be Regretted Enormously
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Du wirst ausspioniert
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Du wirst zum Sklaven gemacht
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Gegen das Vergessen
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Graeberschaendung auf bundesdeutsche
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Hier sind wir Lehrer die einzigen Auslaender
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Jahre Befreiung
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Massenhafter Steuerbetrug durch auslaendische
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Multi\-Kulturell
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Osteuropaeer durch Fischer-Volmer Erlass
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Paranoider Deutschenmoerder kommt
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Polizei schlaegt Alarm
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Schily ueber Deutschland
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Transparenz ist das Mindeste
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Trotz Stellenabbau
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Tuerkei in die
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Turkish Tabloid Enrages Germany with Nazi Comparisons
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Verbrechen der deutschen Frau
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Volk wird nur zum zahlen
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Vorbildliche Aktion
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*Whore Lived Like a German
* 1^0 ^Subject:.*wirst ausspioniert
{

   LOCALVIRUSTAG=yes
   LOG="[$$]${HOME}/.procmailrc: Sober Virus (Subject Pattern Match)
"

# add an X-header to tag the email as a virus. Usefull if you want
# to enable pop clients to be able to take advantage of procmail
# fitlering prior to poping down the mail.

   :0 f
   |${FORMAIL} -A"X-LocalSpamfilter: Sober Virus"
}

# ... any other procmail processing...

# Delivery recipes

# /dev/null any emails that have the LOCALVIRUSTAG variable set as
# "yes".
:0: devnull.lock
* LOCALVIRUSTAG ?? ^yes$
|${FORMAIL} -A"X-Folder: Virusfolder" >>/dev/null

# Tag email that passed spam filtering
:0 f
|${FORMAIL} -A"X-LocalSpamfilter: Ok"

# Deliver email that was not dilivered by other rules to default inbox.
:0: ${DEFAULT}.lock
|${FORMAIL} -A"X-Folder: Default" >>${DEFAULT}
From heybub at gmail.com  Sun May 22 00:34:00 2005
From: heybub at gmail.com (HeyBub)
Date: Sun May 22 00:35:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6ll7i$p25$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6lm81$po0$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6p23g$ohh$1@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:
>> Would it be politically incorrect to suggest that these morons be
>> rounded up and chained to the bottom of an empty swimming pool that
>> is slowly filled with hydrochloric acid?
>>
>>
>
> Why waste the acid?  Just send them to war in Iraq.

Getting killed by going to Iraq is, by no means, a sure thing. Actually, the 
odds are overwhelmingly against being killed as a service member in Iraq. 
Still, there's a chance.

The BEST reason for going to Iraq is you get to kill THEM. Sometimes 
spectacularly.

As to spammers of newsgroups, adding them to their local "Registry of Known 
Underage Molesters (ROKUM)" is a plan. 


From agent01413 at my-deja.com  Sun May 22 17:59:39 2005
From: agent01413 at my-deja.com (Socks the Whitehouse Cat)
Date: Sun May 22 13:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Adobe Woes...
References: <d66gd4$t4r$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns9656F20899EE5agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
	<d67n3g$h64$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns965E6FD4D6572agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>

"Chris F. Willoughby" <avoozl@spamcop.net> wrote in
news:d67n3g$h64$1@news.spamcop.net: 

> 
> Normally, I don't mind your posts.. but this is out of line.  If I
> wanted to read flames I'd go visit any web forum. 
> 
> At least someone else tried to help her..
> 

ISTR she's running a server, not a desktop. putting MSFT on a server is 
just plain irresponsible.  During 2004, there were MSFT viruses with 
exploits in the wild 359 out of 366 days.  The average time to a fix being 
released was frequently measured in weeks if not months.  If they don't 
like being told that MSFT is an unsafe way to connect to the net, they 
should stop using MSFT to connect their servers to the net.

All my servers run Red Hat.  

-- 
See  NANAE kooks, including Barbara Schwarz:
http://www.morningmist.org/nanae/kookfaq.html
From nospam at dev.null  Mon May 23 02:37:55 2005
From: nospam at dev.null (Anty Spam)
Date: Sun May 22 19:40:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Abuse address for netscape.net
Message-ID: <d6r571$vl9$1@news.spamcop.net>

Hi

http://www.spamcop.net/sc?id=z766623949z14b1c3090693db7b14af038525ed4a92z

Anybody know how to report a 419 attempt to Netscape's abuse desk.

They have a user with the name of "Jeffrey Rice" <jrice1759@netscape.net>
who is using their services for a drop box.

Tried forwarding complete mail and headers to them, but got a bounce with
the beautiful analysis:

X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software has rated this email for spam as
follows:
 Content analysis details:   (10.5 points)
 pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- -----------------------------------------------
---
 1.8 URG_BIZ                BODY: Contains urgent matter
 0.1 DEAR_FRIEND            BODY: Dear Friend? That's not very dear!
 0.4 US_DOLLARS_3           BODY: Mentions millions of $ ($NN,NNN,NNN.NN)
 1.6 UNCLAIMED_MONEY        BODY: People just leave money laying around
 0.0 BAYES_50               BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 40 to 60%
 [score: 0.5004]
 0.6 NIGERIAN_BODY2         Message body looks like a Nigerian spam message
2+
 3.4 NIGERIAN_BODY1         Message body looks like a Nigerian spam message
1+
 2.7 NIGERIAN_BODY4         Message body looks like a Nigerian spam message
4+
 0.1 NIGERIAN_BODY3         Message body looks like a Nigerian spam message
3+


Sure, that is why they are supposed to have an abuse desk - for reporting
such abuses.

I guess in their own books, since they perfected their filters and logic,
they are getting no more abuse reports. Great for advertising their success
and patting themselves on their own backs. "We hardly get any abuse
reports!" - sure..........

Time to see if they are listed :
http://www.rfc-ignorant.com/tools/lookup.php?domain=abuse%40netscape.net

As such time for listing....

Brain dead.


From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Sun May 22 22:04:33 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Sun May 22 21:05:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Abuse address for netscape.net
In-Reply-To: <d6r571$vl9$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d6r571$vl9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6ra71$315$1@news.spamcop.net>

Anty Spam wrote:
> Hi
> 
> http://www.spamcop.net/sc?id=z766623949z14b1c3090693db7b14af038525ed4a92z
> 
> Anybody know how to report a 419 attempt to Netscape's abuse desk.
> 
> They have a user with the name of "Jeffrey Rice" <jrice1759@netscape.net>
> who is using their services for a drop box.

Drop the e-mail address in the spamcop.net online parser.  It will 
confirm that netscape.net is still owned by AOL.COM.

One of the more interesting discoveries of doing this is that sometimes 
the abuse address for a domain is not the obvious one.

-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sun May 22 19:06:47 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sun May 22 21:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Abuse address for netscape.net
References: <d6r571$vl9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6rab7$34a$1@news.spamcop.net>

Anty Spam wrote:
> Anybody know how to report a 419 attempt to Netscape's abuse desk.
> 
> They have a user with the name of "Jeffrey Rice"
> <jrice1759@netscape.net> who is using their services for a drop box.

How about to aol's desk.

whois -h whois.abuse.net netscape.net ...
abuse@aol.com (for netscape.net)

Mail for netscape.net is handled by 
mailin-02.mx.netscape.net 205.188.158.57
mailin-01.mx.netscape.net 205.188.158.25
mailin-04.mx.netscape.net 205.188.158.57
mailin-03.mx.netscape.net 205.188.158.25
Canonical name: netscape.net
Addresses:
  64.12.50.151
  205.188.142.182
NetRange:   205.188.0.0 - 205.188.255.255 
CIDR:       205.188.0.0/16 
NetName:    AOL-DTC
NetRange:   64.12.0.0 - 64.12.255.255 
CIDR:       64.12.0.0/16 
NetName:    AOL-MTC

    
-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin
From wb8tyw at qsl.network  Mon May 23 13:05:06 2005
From: wb8tyw at qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)
Date: Mon May 23 13:10:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <tMLgUMuBMkCz@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>, Ilgaz <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> writes:
> Amazing :)
>
> Reading NNTP servers guideline first, I saw "no spamming" and asked
> myself which moron would spam Spamcop nntp server...

Obviously the spammer is trying to determine how long it takes for google to
act on a lart, so they know how long they can make their spam run.

-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
From r_buecheler at hotmail.com  Mon May 23 22:51:45 2005
From: r_buecheler at hotmail.com (Robi)
Date: Mon May 23 23:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<tMLgUMuBMkCz@eisner.encompasserve.org>
Message-ID: <d6u65f$si2$1@news.spamcop.net>

John E. Malmberg wrote:
> In article <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>, Ilgaz writes:
>> Amazing :)
>>
>> Reading NNTP servers guideline first, I saw "no spamming" and asked
>> myself which moron would spam Spamcop nntp server...
> 
> Obviously the spammer is trying to determine how long it takes for google to
> act on a lart, so they know how long they can make their spam run.

on the humorous side, talking about "google", I just received this link:

http://j-walk.com/other/googlecb/index.htm

hilarious ;-)

-- 
Robi
From bar_n0ne at hotmail.com  Tue May 24 10:49:16 2005
From: bar_n0ne at hotmail.com (Berny)
Date: Tue May 24 01:50:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Where/How to set followups to news postings with OE6 ?
Message-ID: <d6uf8t$1po$1@news.spamcop.net>

I know how to set the poting newsgroup but how to set f/up? I'm sure I've
done it before, but now I'm at a loss as to how I did it.


Thanks for any tips.


From MikeE at ster.invalid  Tue May 24 00:40:52 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Tue May 24 02:45:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: Where/How to set followups to news postings with OE6 ?
References: <d6uf8t$1po$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6ui9k$3cj$1@news.spamcop.net>

Berny wrote:
> I know how to set the poting newsgroup but how to set f/up? I'm sure
> I've done it before, but now I'm at a loss as to how I did it.

When you are 'in' a message you are editing, View menu/ check All
headers.  Then your header section expands from allowing a check in
newsgroups & CC to also allowing checks in F/ups to, reply-to, and
inputs to distribution and keywords.

You can leave that configuration all the time, or just call it up to put
in the f/ups and then take it back down.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com  Tue May 24 01:46:04 2005
From: zitt at _no_spam_bigfoot.com (John Zitterkopf)
Date: Tue May 24 03:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe for Sober-P
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5hrlm$os0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6euao$36g$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6m7pm$4m5$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6um40$5el$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Garen Erdoisa" <scamper@trisk.com> wrote in message
news:d6m7pm$4m5$1@news.spamcop.net...

> The above recipe will look for any of those subject patterns, and if it
> sees one will deliver the message to the file defined by $VIRUSBOX.

Correct.
In my case; $VIRUSBOX is defined as:

VIRUSBOX=/dev/null

at the top of my procmailrc.

> Note the 2nd colon.  This is needed to tell procmail to use an implied
> lockfile based on the filename contained in the $VIRUSBOX variable.

Ah. So I need the : 's when I'm sending to a file... but if I'm forwarding
to another email account; I don't?


[snip]

> {
>
>    LOCALVIRUSTAG=yes
>    LOG="[$$]${HOME}/.procmailrc: Sober Virus (Subject Pattern Match)
> "
>
> # add an X-header to tag the email as a virus. Usefull if you want
> # to enable pop clients to be able to take advantage of procmail
> # fitlering prior to poping down the mail.
>
>    :0 f
>    |${FORMAIL} -A"X-LocalSpamfilter: Sober Virus"
> }

Interesting.
Not really a problem on my end; because the only user on the system is me.
But something I will give thought to.

> # /dev/null any emails that have the LOCALVIRUSTAG variable set as
> # "yes".
> :0: devnull.lock
> * LOCALVIRUSTAG ?? ^yes$
>  |${FORMAIL} -A"X-Folder: Virusfolder" >>/dev/null

Why go through all this trouble to kill a virus email?
Doesn't formmail take more "cpu bandwidth" than just dropping it to the
bitbucket (/dev/null)?


Overall I like your approach;
just not sure I want to complicate my rules that much. <wink>

Thanks for the help and tips!
John


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Tue May 24 12:19:51 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Tue May 24 05:20:13 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe for Sober-P
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5hrlm$os0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6euao$36g$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6m7pm$4m5$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6um40$5el$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd95sdn.302.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Tue, 24 May 2005 00:46:04 -0700, John Zitterkopf coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d6um40$5el$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> Ah. So I need the : 's when I'm sending to a file... but if I'm forwarding
> to another email account; I don't?

Correct. It's to prevent more than one instance of procmail trying to 
inject mail into the spool concurrently.

On a multitasking system you don't need to use a lock if you're 
forwarding the mail elsewhere or if you're piping it through something 
else (unless what you're piping it through requires exclusive access to 
something).

-- 
Steve

"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
 difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-
 boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
                       -- Gene "spaf" Spafford (1992)
From bar_n0ne at hotmail.com  Tue May 24 14:54:46 2005
From: bar_n0ne at hotmail.com (Berny)
Date: Tue May 24 05:55:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: Where/How to set followups to news postings with OE6 ? solved
References: <d6uf8t$1po$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6ui9k$3cj$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6utl8$991$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message
news:d6ui9k$3cj$1@news.spamcop.net...
Snip
> When you are 'in' a message you are editing, View menu/ check All
> headers.
SNIP

Thanks Mike


From scamper at trisk.com  Tue May 24 07:01:24 2005
From: scamper at trisk.com (Garen Erdoisa)
Date: Tue May 24 08:05:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Procmail recipe for Sober-P
In-Reply-To: <d6um40$5el$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d5cgkt$10f$1@news.spamcop.net> <d5hrlm$os0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6er8t$19u$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6euao$36g$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d6m7pm$4m5$1@news.spamcop.net> <d6um40$5el$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d6v52u$di3$1@news.spamcop.net>

John Zitterkopf wrote:
> "Garen Erdoisa" <scamper@trisk.com> wrote in message
> news:d6m7pm$4m5$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
> 
>>The above recipe will look for any of those subject patterns, and if it
>>sees one will deliver the message to the file defined by $VIRUSBOX.
> 
> 
> Correct.
> In my case; $VIRUSBOX is defined as:
> 
> VIRUSBOX=/dev/null
> 
> at the top of my procmailrc.
> 
> 
>>Note the 2nd colon.  This is needed to tell procmail to use an implied
>>lockfile based on the filename contained in the $VIRUSBOX variable.
> 
> 
> Ah. So I need the : 's when I'm sending to a file... but if I'm forwarding
> to another email account; I don't?

Correct. You should always keep in mind the state of your lock file(s) 
on delivering recipes.

If you are delivering to a file, you can often let procmail determine 
the lockfile by itself by using the 2nd colon without a filename.

Procmail in that case will use the name of the file folder you are 
delivering to with ".lock" appended to it as the lockfile. You can also 
at your option specify the name of the lockfile for procmail to use.

When the lockfile is present, and multiple procmail processes are 
running, the other procmail processes will hold at that point until the 
lockfile is released or until the procmail timeout is reached.  This is 
to prevent two processes trying to append an email to the same mailbox 
formated file at the same time which could have some undesirable effects.

Using an implied lockfile for mail that is delivered to an email 
address, or piped into a program will confuse the procmail recipe unless 
you give it a specific filename to use. In those cases where the email 
is piped into another program, such as sendmail, the lockfile usually 
isn't needed.

> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
>>{
>>
>>   LOCALVIRUSTAG=yes
>>   LOG="[$$]${HOME}/.procmailrc: Sober Virus (Subject Pattern Match)
>>"
>>
>># add an X-header to tag the email as a virus. Usefull if you want
>># to enable pop clients to be able to take advantage of procmail
>># fitlering prior to poping down the mail.
>>
>>   :0 f
>>   |${FORMAIL} -A"X-LocalSpamfilter: Sober Virus"
>>}
> 
> 
> Interesting.
> Not really a problem on my end; because the only user on the system is me.
> But something I will give thought to.
> 
> 
>># /dev/null any emails that have the LOCALVIRUSTAG variable set as
>># "yes".
>>:0: devnull.lock
>>* LOCALVIRUSTAG ?? ^yes$
>> |${FORMAIL} -A"X-Folder: Virusfolder" >>/dev/null
> 
> 
> Why go through all this trouble to kill a virus email?

:) well remember that this is an example. The main purpose of the 
example is to illustrate the method. There are lots of different ways 
the method can be used. that is up to your creativity. :)

I don't consider it a whole lot of extra trouble actually.

I choose to follow certain coding diciplines since what I write often 
makes it into spam filter software. In that case, people from end users, 
to admins, to abuse desks like to have more logging to show why a 
certain email was handled by the filter(s) in certain ways. So being 
noisy about what the recipe is doing is generally better. This means at 
least minimal logging to a logfile stating the result of a positive hit 
on any given recipe, and most often also adding X-headers to the email 
being processed.

> Doesn't formmail take more "cpu bandwidth" than just dropping it to the
> bitbucket (/dev/null)?

Not really. The regular expression pattern matching is where the vast 
majority of CPU time is spent in procmail recipes. Maintaining a CPU 
budget is a major consideration when writing such recipes especially 
when you consider that the recipe may end up running on servers with a 
heavy load already, maybe processesing 20,000 emails/day per server or 
more for hundreds or thoudsands of user accounts.

With the above considerations, you want to exspend just enough CPU time 
to achieve about 99.99% certantanty that any given email is scored 
correctly.  (ie: spam, not-spam, listmail, regular mail, etc.), but not 
so much so that you get into overkill on CPU time spent on any given 
message.

> 
> 
> Overall I like your approach;

Thanks. but It's not my approach. That style is used by Catherine 
Hampton in the SpamBouncer which is partly what I use for my spam 
filtering system. I adopted her style years ago for a lot of my own 
custom procmail recipes. Credit where it's due. :)

I also use SPF (Sender Policy Framework), bayesian filerting, and custom 
procmail recipes (which include blocklist tagging) to catch or reject 
the other 0.001% spam that the spambouncer misses. Overall this 
combination of systems is working well enough now that I don't have to 
deal with trying to figure out if any given email is spam.

Unfortunately for me, I quite often choose to look at spam emails anyway 
in the same light as a butterfly collector does when pinning up his 
collection. The spams samples do come in handy when developing new 
recipes for spam filter software.

I really do wish (like most people here) that the spammers would just 
listwash my email address so I could be done with it, but they have 
refused to do so, so I may as well use their spams for some good purpose.

> just not sure I want to complicate my rules that much. <wink>

Heh. I used to think along those lines years ago, Unfortunately though, 
the spam kept comming and the rules kept getting incrementally more and 
more complicated.  At this point my procmail recipies (even without 
spambouncer processing) are about 1500 lines long.  My various email 
accounts recive about 2000 spam emails a month currently.  In the past 
(before I started actively containing and/or reporting the spam to abuse 
desks directly or via spamcop) it's been up to 300-400 per day hitting 
my inbox. Now with the filtering in place it's down to only 2-4 a week 
that manage to make it to my bulk incoming folder, and usually zero 
spams to my inbox. The rest get filed to a spam folder which gets 
logrotated out and deleted every 90 days. I have a friend who is making 
use of a similar setup. He is still being slammed with over 3000 
spams/day which for him is down from about 8500 spams/day 18 months ago.

> 
> Thanks for the help and tips!
Quite welcome.

> John
> 
> 

Garen
From PossumTrot at dont.spam.me  Tue May 24 11:53:43 2005
From: PossumTrot at dont.spam.me (Possum Trot)
Date: Tue May 24 14:00:13 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Changing ISP this weekend - what is spam history
Message-ID: <d6vprn$q57$1@news.spamcop.net>

I'm not the network Admin, rather just a user of our company network.  This 
weekend we change ISPs in conjunction with a move to new offices.   Given 
two address ranges, how can I determine what the past spam history of those 
ranges are, in particular whether they are or have recently been blocked? 


From agent01413 at my-deja.com  Tue May 24 23:13:05 2005
From: agent01413 at my-deja.com (Socks the Whitehouse Cat)
Date: Tue May 24 18:15:32 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: Changing ISP this weekend - what is spam history
References: <d6vprn$q57$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9660A4FB664CAagent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>

"Possum Trot" <PossumTrot@dont.spam.me> wrote in
news:d6vprn$q57$1@news.spamcop.net: 

> I'm not the network Admin, rather just a user of our company network. 
> This weekend we change ISPs in conjunction with a move to new offices.
>   Given two address ranges, how can I determine what the past spam
> history of those ranges are, in particular whether they are or have
> recently been blocked? 
> 

http://openrbl.org for starters.

check the upstream most importantly.  if you are going to MCI/UUNET or SBC, 
for instance, the chances are good that you'll be blocked.

http://spamhaus.org can also give you data on your ISP. Again, focus on the 
backbone provider.

-- 
See  NANAE kooks, including Barbara Schwarz:
http://www.morningmist.org/nanae/kookfaq.html
From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed May 25 14:58:50 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (me-no-no)
Date: Wed May 25 09:00:22 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: search google and earn money, easy way to make a few bucks
References: <d6l13b$bfr$5@news.spamcop.net> <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<tMLgUMuBMkCz@eisner.encompasserve.org>
Message-ID: <d71sqc$qc$1@news.spamcop.net>

> In article <d6l8u2$g7h$1@news.spamcop.net>, Ilgaz <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> 
> writes:
>> Amazing :)
>> Reading NNTP servers guideline first, I saw "no spamming" and asked 
>> myself which moron would spam Spamcop nntp server...

Perhaps the guidelines should also include "no spamming or scamming"
Looks like a double whammy moron :-)

http://www.netbuxscam.com/
(interesting history too)

Ciao
Meno 


From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed May 25 14:13:44 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Wed May 25 16:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
Message-ID: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>

Does anyone know why most (all?) of the major boot managers can't boot 
an NTFS partition without being installed in their own FAT16 or FAT32 
partition? Have they just not updated their software to boot into NTFS, 
or is there some quirk of the NTFS file system that makes it impossible 
to do?

It doesn't seem to be a problem with recognizing the NTFS partition as 
such - in fact, System Commander's error screen lists all of the 
available partitions with a message to "Pick a partition to boot into", 
and then boots the NTFS partition just fine.

I ran across something called OSL2000 (http://www.osloader.com) that 
claims to work without requiring its own partition - anyone have any 
experience with it?

I'm going to install SuSE Linux on this machine in the near future, 
maybe the LILO/GRUB (or whatever's current these days) loader will work 
best for this particular setup?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/tips/ideas.

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Wed May 25 23:47:22 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Wed May 25 16:50:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:13:44 -0700, GregR coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
left this in <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> Does anyone know why most (all?) of the major boot managers can't boot 
> an NTFS partition without being installed in their own FAT16 or FAT32 
> partition?

I don't know what you're calling a "major" boot manager, but none of the 
bootloaders I've ever used need their own partitions.

> I'm going to install SuSE Linux on this machine in the near future, 
> maybe the LILO/GRUB (or whatever's current these days) loader will work 
> best for this particular setup?

Yes.

The installation process might not "see" your NTFS partition OOTB but 
both those bootloaders can boot an O/S on an NTFS filesystem. LILO has 
done it here for years.

This said, ntloader can also boot a Linux system if you'd rather do 
things that way round...

-- 
Steve

Exclusive dedication to necessitous chores without interludes of
hedonistic diversion renders John a hebetudinous fellow.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed May 25 15:32:54 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Wed May 25 17:35:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein wrote:

> I don't know what you're calling a "major" boot manager, but none of the 
> bootloaders I've ever used need their own partitions.

VCOM's System Commander, PowerQuest BootMagic, IBM's Boot Manager, etc. 
All either require(d) their own partition, or to be installed in a FAT16 
or FAT32 one.

Both VCOM and PQ have been sold to new owners (and I think Boot Manager 
is now extinct), so it's possible there hasn't been any product updating 
for a while.

> The installation process might not "see" your NTFS partition OOTB but 
> both those bootloaders can boot an O/S on an NTFS filesystem. LILO has 
> done it here for years.

Not a problem, SuSE's setup tool (YaST) has recognized NTFS partitions 
for years too.

> This said, ntloader can also boot a Linux system if you'd rather do 
> things that way round...

This article on the MS website seemed to indicate otherwise (scroll down 
to the "Third Party Tools" section):
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/expert/russel_september10.mspx

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Wed May 25 19:33:16 2005
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Wed May 25 21:35:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Mac OS X FileVault performance hit?
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-00FFB8.18331625052005@news.cesmail.net>

Greetings all,

I just enabled FileFault on my 2x2Ghz G5 last night, and it completed it 
after a few hours.

Has anyone else experienced any sort of performance hit when using 
FileVault, such as when playing video games or whatnot?

Cheers!

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Thu May 26 11:39:21 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Thu May 26 04:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:32:54 -0700, GregR coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
left this in <d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net>:

>> This said, ntloader can also boot a Linux system if you'd rather do 
>> things that way round...
>
> This article on the MS website seemed to indicate otherwise (scroll down 
> to the "Third Party Tools" section):
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/expert/russel_september10.mspx

<quote>

Published: September 10, 2001

Past articles by members of the online community are archived for your 
use. The information may become outdated as technology changes.

</quote>

Technology *has* changed. I've done it here before with W2000's ntloader 
booting a Slackware system.

-- 
Steve

Just remember, if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Thu May 26 12:00:03 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Thu May 26 14:05:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein wrote:

> Technology *has* changed. I've done it here before with W2000's ntloader 
> booting a Slackware system.

OK, that's one solution, but you still didn't answer my original 
question about why most of the boot managers (let's call them 3rd party 
boot managers if that would make you happier...) can't boot an NTFS 
partition without requiring their own FAT16 or FAT32 partition.

I suppose I could use NTLOADER or LILO/GRUB, but I've used System 
Commander for years in the past and would like be able to use it again 
on the new system without sacrificing a partition just for it.

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Thu May 26 21:28:44 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Thu May 26 14:30:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd9c5as.tpt.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:00:03 -0700, GregR coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
left this in <d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> OK, that's one solution, but you still didn't answer my original 
> question about why most of the boot managers (let's call them 3rd party 
> boot managers if that would make you happier...) can't boot an NTFS 
> partition without requiring their own FAT16 or FAT32 partition.

I really don't know. Furthermore, I assume that they're closed source so 
there's no way to know other than asking the publishers and hoping 
they'll release their "trade secrets".

-- 
Steve

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him
how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer
all day.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Thu May 26 12:49:52 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Thu May 26 14:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd9c5as.tpt.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9c5as.tpt.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d755oe$3br$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein wrote:

> I really don't know. Furthermore, I assume that they're closed source so 
> there's no way to know other than asking the publishers and hoping 
> they'll release their "trade secrets".

Yeah, but since all of the ones that I've tried seem to have the same 
problem, you'd think that somebody out there would know the reason why 
-- closed source or not, it seems to point to an issue with NTFS that's 
common to all of them.

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Thu May 26 22:12:26 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Thu May 26 15:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9c5as.tpt.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d755oe$3br$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd9c7sq.u00.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:49:52 -0700, GregR coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
left this in <d755oe$3br$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> Yeah, but since all of the ones that I've tried seem to have the same 
> problem, you'd think that somebody out there would know the reason why 
> -- closed source or not, it seems to point to an issue with NTFS that's 
> common to all of them.

I suspect the common denominator is laziness. In order to find out 
exactly how NTFS works they have 3 possibilities.

1) Ask Micro$oft, who will probably charge them for the information.

2) Base their code on an existing open-source project such as ntfsutils 
or the Linux kernel, but those are released under the GPL which means 
that they'd have to release *their* product under the GPL too.

3) Figure it out on their own.

1) will cost them money. 2) will prevent them from earning money. All 
that's left is 3).

-- 
Steve

'Palladium' is an answer to a question no one asked.
You want safety, trusted code and no viruses? Don't use Windows.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Thu May 26 14:26:29 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Thu May 26 16:30:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd9c7sq.u00.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9c5as.tpt.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d755oe$3br$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9c7sq.u00.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d75bdk$75o$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein wrote:

> I suspect the common denominator is laziness. In order to find out 
> exactly how NTFS works they have 3 possibilities.
> 
> 1) Ask Micro$oft, who will probably charge them for the information.

Well, that theory fails for Symantec products (who now own Partition 
Magic and Boot Magic) - otherwise none of their other products would 
work with current MS technology.

Besides, 3rd party boot loaders are such a small slice of the market 
that I'd be surprised if MS was even interested in "owning" it.

> 2) Base their code on an existing open-source project such as ntfsutils 
> or the Linux kernel, but those are released under the GPL which means 
> that they'd have to release *their* product under the GPL too.

Not if they wrote their own code using the "clean-room" model. You 
should read up on how the original IBM BIOS was re-written for the clone 
makers (AMD, Award, Phoenix, etc.).

> 3) Figure it out on their own.

Ummm..., yeah. What we used to call basic engineering, or maybe 
reverse-engineering? Or have we outsourced all of that lately?

> 1) will cost them money. 2) will prevent them from earning money. All 
> that's left is 3).

Which brings us back to my original question - why hasn't anyone done it 
for NTFS?

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Thu May 26 18:43:47 2005
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Thu May 26 20:45:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Mac OS X FileVault performance hit?
References: <pete+usenet-00FFB8.18331625052005@news.cesmail.net>
	<ozchzhq02-BD98EA.14294726052005@frylock.local>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-2DC58A.17434726052005@news.cesmail.net>

In article <ozchzhq02-BD98EA.14294726052005@frylock.local>,
 David Dean <ozchzhq02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

>    I had some issues when using FileVault under Jaguar. Permissions 
> would get messed up and Preferences would go missing. I eventually had 
> to completely scrap that user. I haven't tried it since. I never had any 
> speed or CPU usage issues related to it.

Hmm. All right. I'm using it with Tiger, so we'll see how well it works. 
It doesn't seem to be doing that bad, though I haven't done any sort of 
actual analysis if the performance.

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From notformail0405 at comcast.net  Thu May 26 23:41:10 2005
From: notformail0405 at comcast.net (Gunter Herrmann)
Date: Thu May 26 22:45:14 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d761c6$llk$1@news.spamcop.net>

Hi!

Steven Maesslein wrote:
> <quote>
> 
> Published: September 10, 2001
> 
> Past articles by members of the online community are archived for your 
> use. The information may become outdated as technology changes.
> 
> </quote>
> 
> Technology *has* changed. I've done it here before with W2000's ntloader 
> booting a Slackware system.

Technology has not changed very much.
In 1997 I have booted from NT (both 3.51 and 4.0) ntldr on ntfs into
lilo (grub did not exist at that time) starting a 1.0 and 1.2 LINUX 
kernel.

In the NT loader you only have to specify the partition. The other
system is then started from the partition boot record.
Note: This only works on primary partitions.

brgds

-- 
Gunter Herrmann
Naples, Florida, USA
From rcarlton at spamcop.net  Thu May 26 23:19:40 2005
From: rcarlton at spamcop.net (Rick Carlton)
Date: Fri May 27 01:20:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Mac OS X FileVault performance hit?
In-Reply-To: <pete+usenet-2DC58A.17434726052005@news.cesmail.net>
References: <pete+usenet-00FFB8.18331625052005@news.cesmail.net>
	<ozchzhq02-BD98EA.14294726052005@frylock.local>
	<pete+usenet-2DC58A.17434726052005@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <d76alc$qjk$2@news.spamcop.net>

Pete Stephenson wrote:
> Hmm. All right. I'm using it with Tiger, so we'll see how well it works. 
> It doesn't seem to be doing that bad, though I haven't done any sort of 
> actual analysis if the performance.

I'm not noticing a big hit, but then I'm on a 1.25Ghz G4 and don't have 
the big iron that you do.

All I really play is UT2004, but if you do as well - we can do some 
comparisons.
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Thu May 26 23:29:12 2005
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Fri May 27 01:30:16 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Mac OS X FileVault performance hit?
References: <pete+usenet-00FFB8.18331625052005@news.cesmail.net>
	<ozchzhq02-BD98EA.14294726052005@frylock.local>
	<pete+usenet-2DC58A.17434726052005@news.cesmail.net>
	<d76alc$qjk$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-FD7BD4.22291226052005@news.cesmail.net>

In article <d76alc$qjk$2@news.spamcop.net>,
 Rick Carlton <rcarlton@spamcop.net> wrote:

> I'm not noticing a big hit, but then I'm on a 1.25Ghz G4 and don't have 
> the big iron that you do.

Heh. My buddy has the 2x2.5Ghz. I'm more like "large, but not quite 
'big' iron" :)

> All I really play is UT2004, but if you do as well - we can do some 
> comparisons.

I'm afraid I don't. How good is the game?

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Fri May 27 10:45:41 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Fri May 27 03:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d761c6$llk$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd9dk15.2ts.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Thu, 26 May 2005 22:41:10 -0400, Gunter Herrmann coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d761c6$llk$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> In the NT loader you only have to specify the partition. The other
> system is then started from the partition boot record.
> Note: This only works on primary partitions.

Alternatively, you get LILO to write a bootsector to a 512-byte file. 
You then copy this 512-byte file over to your NTFS partition and 
reference *it* in your boot.ini. This obviates the need to have the 
alternative O/S in a primary partition.

-- 
Steve

Seen in the classified ads:
COMPLETE SET OF ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA. 45 VOLUMES.
EXCELLENT CONDITION. $1000 OR BEST OFFER. NO LONGER
NEEDED. MARRIED. WIFE KNOWS EVERYTHING.
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Fri May 27 21:26:36 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Fri May 27 23:30:15 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>

On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:13:44 -0700, GregR wrote:

> I'm going to install SuSE Linux on this machine in the near future, maybe
> the LILO/GRUB (or whatever's current these days) loader will work best for
> this particular setup?

Greg,

There is nothing wrong with Grub ..  in fact it is so much like the 'old'
System Commander you'll forget which you are using.

Just let YAST install and use Grub  and you'll be home-free.

I could, however, argue your choice of SuSE ..  

For a newer Linux user you'd find MEPIS a leap ahead.  It's a customized
Debian distro and super-duper!  http://www.mepis.com (and FREE unlike SuSE !)

Ken
From aunt.jemima at pancake.box  Sat May 28 01:10:37 2005
From: aunt.jemima at pancake.box (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Sat May 28 00:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Outlook Express
Message-ID: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net>

I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not downloaded" and there 
seems to be no way to download them.

Worse, some groups show an ever increasing number and none of the messages 
can be read.

I've tried "catch up," unsubscribe and resubscribe, resetting... nothing 
works.

Any clues?


-- 
The Runaway Bride...
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709





---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0521-4, 05/27/2005
Tested on: 5/28/2005 12:10:37 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com



From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sat May 28 03:38:54 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sat May 28 05:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d79e7c$k8l$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not downloaded" and
> there seems to be no way to download them.
>
> Worse, some groups show an ever increasing number and none of the
> messages can be read.
>
> I've tried "catch up," unsubscribe and resubscribe, resetting...
> nothing works.

Of the many causes of xxx messages not downloaded I've dealt with, I
have always been able to eliminate that condition by some combination of
resetting and/or catch up.  What newsserver and which newsgroups?  This
newsserver or some other?

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Sat May 28 12:59:43 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Sat May 28 06:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd9gg8f.2rn.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:10:37 -0400, Dwayne Conyers coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not downloaded" and there 
> seems to be no way to download them.

Because they're killfiled maybe?

-- 
Steve

guru, n:
        A computer owner who can read the manual.
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sat May 28 04:20:22 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sat May 28 06:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9gg8f.2rn.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d79gl4$m7j$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein wrote:
> Dwayne Conyers

>> I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not downloaded" and
>> there seems to be no way to download them.
>
> Because they're killfiled maybe?

OE has to dl the header to see the From for its 'block sender' rule
which for news just causes those messages to be not displayed.  The xxx
messages not downloaded are headers not downloaded, and the number is
based on the information which OE has about its downloaded headers
and/vs the information the newsserver has/gives about its messages on
the server.

For news messages OE considers 'not displayed' to be 'deleted' vis kf

The business about a message/s being cancelled from the newsserver can
impact or cause discrepancies in the two counts, but those discrepancies
are 'fixed' [eliminated/rectified] by resetting and/or catch up.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From eddie at eddie.web  Sat May 28 12:23:09 2005
From: eddie at eddie.web (eddie)
Date: Sat May 28 11:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.28.15.23.08.678000@eddie.web>

On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:10:37 -0400, Dwayne Conyers scratched out the
following:

> I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not downloaded" and there
> seems to be no way to download them.
> 
> Worse, some groups show an ever increasing number and none of the messages
> can be read.
> 
> I've tried "catch up," unsubscribe and resubscribe, resetting... nothing
> works.
> 
> Any clues?

I would first suspect your news provider. I have several newsservers, and
on some, messages are deleted that are available on a different server.
Usually, you are being connected through a third party, I guess it would
be called. Your ISP contracts with a major newsserver and they are
actually providing the news; your ISP is only providing the login, etc.
There are some news servers that you can sign up for directly. Most charge
for the service. You can also use GoogleGroups which is free, if only to
check on the messages you cannot read, and possibly do some sleuthing.

-- 
Once movie theaters gave out steak knives
Today they confiscate them
From eddie at eddie.web  Sat May 28 12:24:05 2005
From: eddie at eddie.web (eddie)
Date: Sat May 28 11:25:07 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.28.15.24.05.199000@eddie.web>

On Sat, 28 May 2005 00:10:37 -0400, Dwayne Conyers scratched out the
following:

> I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not downloaded" and there
> seems to be no way to download them.
> 
> Worse, some groups show an ever increasing number and none of the messages
> can be read.
> 
> I've tried "catch up," unsubscribe and resubscribe, resetting... nothing
> works.
> 
> Any clues?

You might also try Mozilla's NG and see if the problem is realted to OE or
your ISP.

-- 
Once movie theaters gave out steak knives
Today they confiscate them
From nobody at spamcop.net  Sat May 28 12:08:42 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Sat May 28 14:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>

Aha... finally an intelligent answer to my question.  :-)

Ken Knull wrote:

> There is nothing wrong with Grub ..  in fact it is so much like the 'old'
> System Commander you'll forget which you are using.

Thanks for that info. I haven't done a Linux install for a few years - 
long enough ago that GRUB wasn't even around the LILO was a "crude" 
text-based boot manager.

> Just let YAST install and use Grub  and you'll be home-free.

Yeah, that was going to be the next thing in my plan of attack to get 
this all working together.

> I could, however, argue your choice of SuSE ..  

Go ahead, I'm all ears... :-)

I've played with a few Linux distros over the years, starting with the 
Yggdrasil one w-a-y back around 1995.

Landed on SuSE a few years ago after some recommendations from the IT 
people at work. Seems to be stable enough and works for what I use it 
for, though I'm not locked into it by any means.

> For a newer Linux user you'd find MEPIS a leap ahead.  It's a customized
> Debian distro and super-duper!  http://www.mepis.com (and FREE unlike SuSE !)

What features does it have that I don't know that I need?... ;-)

And SuSE *is* available as a free download (http://tinyurl.com/4z37b). 
In fact, my understanding of the Linux GPL is that it has to be made 
available for free, and the only thing that can be charged for are 
"convenience items" (i.e. packaging, CDs/DVDs, etc.) and printed 
documentation.

Since you've been so helpful with that question, care to tackle my other 
one about why none of the 3rd party boot managers seem to work with an 
NTFS partition w/out requiring their own FAT partition?  :-)

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Sat May 28 14:33:47 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Sat May 28 16:35:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>

On Sat, 28 May 2005 11:08:42 -0700, GregR wrote:

> Aha... finally an intelligent answer to my question.  :-)
> 
> Ken Knull wrote:
> 
>> There is nothing wrong with Grub ..  in fact it is so much like the
>> 'old' System Commander you'll forget which you are using.

>> I could, however, argue your choice of SuSE ..
> 
> Go ahead, I'm all ears... :-)
> 
> I've played with a few Linux distros over the years, starting with the
> Yggdrasil one w-a-y back around 1995.

You'll be amazed how far Linux has come since then !

In fact here is an article about: Windows Nearly Ready For Desktop Use

	http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/18/2033216
 
>> For a newer Linux user you'd find MEPIS a leap ahead.  It's a customized
>> Debian distro and super-duper!  http://www.mepis.com (and FREE unlike
>> SuSE !)
> 
> What features does it have that I don't know that I need?... ;-)

One friend commented to me it is the first distro he found that actually
completely worked to sync his palm pilot.  And since I don't know what you
need (or don't) I can't help much there,  but with apt-get and synaptic
there are 20,000 applications available for free download and
auto-install. 

> And SuSE *is* available as a free download
> (http://tinyurl.com/4z37b).
> In fact, my understanding of the Linux GPL is that it has to be made
> available for free, and the only thing that can be charged for are
> "convenience items" (i.e. packaging, CDs/DVDs, etc.) and printed
> documentation.

True, sorta  ..  there are some apps which are not "free" they can be
charged for,  plus support, and not everything is necessarily GPL'd these
days.  There are a host of new 'licenses'. 

> Since you've been so helpful with that question, care to tackle my other
> one about why none of the 3rd party boot managers seem to work with an
> NTFS partition w/out requiring their own FAT partition?  :-)

Greg,

It has been since before there was even an NTFS (NT,XP) that I've even
looked at a NTFS (or fat / fat32, for that matter) on my own system(s). 
I've used nothing but (most) Linux distros since 1998,  and hope never to
'have' to use any M$-based schtuff on one again,  so I am fairly clueless
as to why you'd need a fat/fat32 parition for a bootloader.

I'd also guess however that with a third-party partition-magic type app. 
you could make a 50k partition for booting and not worry about why it is
needed and not lose any real space.

I referenced http://www.mepis.com  up above,  but actually you'll find
more about why mepis is superior at  http://www.mepis.org (including free
download), and more support help (in seconds, not days) than you can use.

Actually mepis is now a live-CD so you can actually run and use it from
the CD (albeit, a tad slower than if you install),  but then you can
install from it as well, should you choose. That's a great way to
test-drive it.

I think we should take the distro-war stuff off-line (my address above
works) as we would for politics and religion ;-)

I tried SuSE when it went 9.0  and among many other annoyances found it
wouldn't even find my DSL,  so shitcanned it.  

Feel free to write, should you want more.

Ken

From SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com  Sat May 28 15:11:25 2005
From: SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com (Brian (SnSR))
Date: Sat May 28 17:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net>

Ken Knull wrote:
> On Sat, 28 May 2005 11:08:42 -0700, GregR wrote:

<big snip>

> 
> I think we should take the distro-war stuff off-line (my address above
> works) as we would for politics and religion ;-)
> 

I don't believe that's necessary. This is the geeks channel after all :) 
I for one, and most likely there are others, have enjoyed 'listening in' 
so that when I do have the time to make the switch, I'll be more informed.

Thanks much,
Brian
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Sat May 28 21:09:25 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Pop)
Date: Sat May 28 20:10:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Synchgronize Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7b170$dor$1@news.spamcop.net>





"Dwayne Conyers" <aunt.jemima@pancake.box> wrote in 
message news:d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net...
>I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not 
>downloaded" and there seems to be no way to download 
>them.
>...

I have some groups set that way on purpose, especially 
if they're ones I want to read the entire history of 
posts, as in the more technical ones.

When that happens to you, try clicking Tools, Get next 
xxx Messages.  If you didn't set them to synchronize in 
OE, you read what you downloaded, and that's it until 
more -new- ones come in; you'll never see the old ones. 
Get Next xxx gets the next xxx that you set up in the 
defaults.

That's why Catchup doesn't change it too, BTW.

Go to the Newgroups Master index page; right click on 
any ng title, select Newsgroups, and you can set them 
up there.

Pop 


From notgiven at nodomain.net  Sat May 28 22:15:49 2005
From: notgiven at nodomain.net (C. S.)
Date: Sat May 28 21:20:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>

Sometime around Sat, 28 May 2005 14:11:25 -0700, "Brian (SnSR)"
<SCNews.5.myspamgobbler@spamgourmet.com> deemed it necessary to offer:

> Ken Knull wrote:
> > On Sat, 28 May 2005 11:08:42 -0700, GregR wrote:
> 
> <big snip>
> 
> > 
> > I think we should take the distro-war stuff off-line (my address above
> > works) as we would for politics and religion ;-)
> > 
> 
> I don't believe that's necessary. This is the geeks channel after all :) 
> I for one, and most likely there are others, have enjoyed 'listening in' 
> so that when I do have the time to make the switch, I'll be more informed.

I'll second those sentiments.
I've toyed with several 'nix distros before, though never gave 'em
enough of a test-drive to see if they could really replace my Win
boxes. I'd like to lurk in this discussion for a bit longer.
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Sat May 28 19:45:52 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Sat May 28 21:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>

On Sat, 28 May 2005 21:15:49 -0400, C.S wrote:

> Sometime around Sat, 28 May 2005 14:11:25 -0700, "Brian (SnSR)"
> <SCNews.5.myspamgobbler@spamgourmet.com> deemed it necessary to offer:
> 
>> Ken Knull wrote:
>> > On Sat, 28 May 2005 11:08:42 -0700, GregR wrote:
>> 
>> <big snip>
>> 
>> 
>> > I think we should take the distro-war stuff off-line (my address above
>> > works) as we would for politics and religion ;-)
>> > 
>> > 
>> I don't believe that's necessary. This is the geeks channel after all :)
>> I for one, and most likely there are others, have enjoyed 'listening in'
>> so that when I do have the time to make the switch, I'll be more
>> informed.
> 
> I'll second those sentiments.
> I've toyed with several 'nix distros before, though never gave 'em enough
> of a test-drive to see if they could really replace my Win boxes. I'd like
> to lurk in this discussion for a bit longer.

Here is a short list,  there are far more extensive ones, that show the M$
to Linux/Mepis equals.

>From these lists one can see that winboxes *can* be replaced !

	http://www.mepis.com/node/39

and in most cases with far faster, more secure and equal or better FREE
alternatives.

I'd say take a test drive of Mepis 3.3.1 on a live-CD without disturbing
your existing winbloats and try.  Costs nothing, changes nothing...  you
may find it easier than  you thought.  I sure did!

	http://www.mepis.org/node/1462

Ken

From jr70 at blackhole.invalid  Sun May 29 12:10:15 2005
From: jr70 at blackhole.invalid (John Richards)
Date: Sun May 29 14:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Ken Knull" <pantheus@suespammers.org> wrote in message news:pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org...
> On Sat, 28 May 2005 21:15:49 -0400, C.S wrote:
> 
>> Sometime around Sat, 28 May 2005 14:11:25 -0700, "Brian (SnSR)"
>> <SCNews.5.myspamgobbler@spamgourmet.com> deemed it necessary to offer:
>> 
>>> Ken Knull wrote:
>>> > On Sat, 28 May 2005 11:08:42 -0700, GregR wrote:
>>> 
>>> <big snip>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > I think we should take the distro-war stuff off-line (my address above
>>> > works) as we would for politics and religion ;-)
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> I don't believe that's necessary. This is the geeks channel after all :)
>>> I for one, and most likely there are others, have enjoyed 'listening in'
>>> so that when I do have the time to make the switch, I'll be more
>>> informed.
>> 
>> I'll second those sentiments.
>> I've toyed with several 'nix distros before, though never gave 'em enough
>> of a test-drive to see if they could really replace my Win boxes. I'd like
>> to lurk in this discussion for a bit longer.
> 
> Here is a short list,  there are far more extensive ones, that show the M$
> to Linux/Mepis equals.
> 
> From these lists one can see that winboxes *can* be replaced !
> 
> http://www.mepis.com/node/39
> 
> and in most cases with far faster, more secure and equal or better FREE
> alternatives.

Finding Windows-equivalent software is all well and good, but when
the Linux distro doesn't have a built-in driver for your modem, your 
printer, or your video card, then what good is it...
Win XP has all the drivers included.

-- 
John Richards
From nobody at spamcop.net  Sun May 29 12:22:18 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 14:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <d7d18p$dcf$1@news.spamcop.net>

Ken Knull wrote:

> You'll be amazed how far Linux has come since then !

Well, umm... yeah... Did you miss my part about using SuSE for a few 
years and being reasonably happy with it?...  :-)

> In fact here is an article about: Windows Nearly Ready For Desktop Use
> 
> 	http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/18/2033216

LOL! Good article, thanks for the link.  :-)

>>>MEPIS 

>>What features does it have that I don't know that I need?... ;-)

> One friend commented to me it is the first distro he found that actually
> completely worked to sync his palm pilot.  And since I don't know what you
> need (or don't) I can't help much there,  but with apt-get and synaptic
> there are 20,000 applications available for free download and
> auto-install. 

I'll keep that in mind, but I really don't have the time or inclination 
to play distro "flavor of the month".  Having managed to get Yggdrasil 
to run (with a VLB SCSI card and video card, no less), what I value 
right now is ease of installation, stability, and ease of upgrading. 
Seems like SuSE is compatible with RPM and the Debian packages (maybe 
more, I didn't do much upgrading on the earlier installs).

> True, sorta  ..  there are some apps which are not "free" they can be
> charged for,  plus support, and not everything is necessarily GPL'd these
> days.  There are a host of new 'licenses'. 

Yabbut..., you're parsing what I originally posted a little too finely - 
AFAIK all of the Linux distros (the O/S itself, not the additional apps, 
support, etc.) are required to be made available free of charge.

> It has been since before there was even an NTFS (NT,XP) that I've even
> looked at a NTFS (or fat / fat32, for that matter) on my own system(s). 
> I've used nothing but (most) Linux distros since 1998,  and hope never to
> 'have' to use any M$-based schtuff on one again,  so I am fairly clueless
> as to why you'd need a fat/fat32 parition for a bootloader.

Ah, OK. I agree with your sentiments, except that I have a lot of legacy 
M$ stuff that I need to keep running for the foreseeable future.

> I'd also guess however that with a third-party partition-magic type app. 
> you could make a 50k partition for booting and not worry about why it is
> needed and not lose any real space.

Yeah, that'll work - and a little more research seems to indicate that 
the boot manager can launch most of the operating systems out of a 
logical partition, so that solves the problem of eating up a primary one 
just for the boot manager.

> I referenced http://www.mepis.com  up above,  but actually you'll find
> more about why mepis is superior at  http://www.mepis.org (including free
> download), and more support help (in seconds, not days) than you can use.
> 
> Actually mepis is now a live-CD so you can actually run and use it from
> the CD (albeit, a tad slower than if you install),  but then you can
> install from it as well, should you choose. That's a great way to
> test-drive it.

Don't most of the major distros have a Live-CD version these days? SuSe 
has them (in fact, they keep a couple of versions back available on 
their FTP site), and I've got one for Knoppix that came with a book on 
Knoppix hacks.

> I think we should take the distro-war stuff off-line (my address above
> works) as we would for politics and religion ;-)

Distro-war? I don't think this discussion has reached anywhere near the 
"war" status, but I'd favor just keeping it here on the NG.

> I tried SuSE when it went 9.0  and among many other annoyances found it
> wouldn't even find my DSL,  so shitcanned it.  

Interesting... I'll keep you posted on the DSL issue if it becomes a 
problem for my install, wonder if it was a something with your NIC card 
or maybe the DSL modem?

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Sun May 29 12:36:55 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Sun May 29 14:40:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7d18p$dcf$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.29.18.36.55.274334@suespammers.org>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:22:18 -0700, GregR wrote:

> Ken Knull wrote:

>> I tried SuSE when it went 9.0  and among many other annoyances found it
>> wouldn't even find my DSL,  so shitcanned it.
> 
> Interesting... I'll keep you posted on the DSL issue if it becomes a
> problem for my install, wonder if it was a something with your NIC card or
> maybe the DSL modem?

Nope, no problems with NIC / DSL router / WiFi router / and everything I
have thrown at it with:
     RedHat 3.5 through 9.x, Fedora Core 1,2,3, Debian, Mepis, slack, and
a couple others - ONLY SuSE 9.0 wouldn't find it or use it.  It may have
been able to be manually twisted to run - but why ?   There were a few
other annoyances (to me), as well,  that have faded the memory by now.

Bottom line,  dance with what feels right for you (as long as Linus did
the kernel)  ;-)

Ken
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Sun May 29 12:40:34 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Sun May 29 14:45:13 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.29.18.40.34.753925@suespammers.org>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:15 -0700, John Richards wrote:

> "Ken Knull" <pantheus@suespammers.org> wrote in message

>> Here is a short list,  there are far more extensive ones, that show the
>> M$ to Linux/Mepis equals.
>> 
>> From these lists one can see that winboxes *can* be replaced !
>> 
>> http://www.mepis.com/node/39
>> 
>> and in most cases with far faster, more secure and equal or better FREE
>> alternatives.
> 
> Finding Windows-equivalent software is all well and good, but when the
> Linux distro doesn't have a built-in driver for your modem, your printer,
> or your video card, then what good is it... Win XP has all the drivers
> included.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,  I guess you didn't read this:

	http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/18/2033216

Ken

From m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl  Sun May 29 22:44:02 2005
From: m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl (Martijn Lievaart)
Date: Sun May 29 15:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>

On Thu, 26 May 2005 11:00:03 -0700, GregR wrote:

> Steven Maesslein wrote:
> 
>> Technology *has* changed. I've done it here before with W2000's ntloader 
>> booting a Slackware system.
> 
> OK, that's one solution, but you still didn't answer my original 
> question about why most of the boot managers (let's call them 3rd party 
> boot managers if that would make you happier...) can't boot an NTFS 
> partition without requiring their own FAT16 or FAT32 partition.
> 
> I suppose I could use NTLOADER or LILO/GRUB, but I've used System 
> Commander for years in the past and would like be able to use it again 
> on the new system without sacrificing a partition just for it.

I have my suspicions. What does a boot manager have to work with to store
itself? Either you fit everything in the bootsector, or you need some
additional harddisk space.

- The Master boot sector, 512 bytes that also contains the master
partition table. Not much space to write a serious program in. I used to
develop custom bootloaders and it's a tight fit, let me tell you. Not an
option for serious boot managers.

With that approach impractical, the bootmanager has to be split in a
bootloader and a kernel. This kernel is responsible for drawing the nice
screens, let the user choose, boot the real OS, etc. The boatloader just
boots this kernel, like any other bootloader loads it's OS. The boot
manager is in effect a mini-OS.

- The rest of track 0, which is ordinarily not used for anything, it is
wasted space on your harddisk. The last OS I know to actively assign this
area to partitions was MSDOS 2.0. However, you have no guarantee that it's
free. Some weird new OS may decide (legitemately) to allocate this space
to a partition, it may be in use by a disk encryption utility, etc.

- Any existing partition. This is a valid approach, but has some
very serious problems. Your boot manager suddenly has to understand this
type of partition. Because you piggyback on another OS, you have to play
by the rules of that OS. That means you have to really read directories
and files. Normally a bootloader uses some tricks how it locates the
kernel to load, now it either has to understand the filesystem or use some
extremely dirty tricks. And this has to be repeated for every type of
filesystem you want to support. Which brings us back to square one,
because where are we going to store that code? It's a chicken and egg
problem.

- An additional partition. This approach has the drawback that one cannot
easily add this to an existing system. Other than that it only has
advantages. Your boot utility effectively becomes a mini-OS and can employ
all tricks a normal OS uses for booting. For instance, it can reserve the
start of the partition to store it's kernel, use sector 0 to store
additional code to load the kernel, do anything any other boat loader does
as well. Compared to the other approaches, this one is fairly trivial,
safe and easy.

So why FAT16 or FAT32? Easy. You have to choose something. FAT is pretty
easy and well understood. It is supported by virtually every OS out there.
It's the FS I would choose if I had to choose a FS for something like
this. All other types of FS are overkill and developing your own FS is a
waste of time if you can use existing code.

HTH,
M4
-- 
Ah, the beauty of OSS. Hundreds of volunteers worldwide volunteering
their time inventing and implementing new, exciting ways for software
to suck. -- Toni Lassila in the Monastry

From nobody at spamcop.net  Sun May 29 14:22:58 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 16:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>

Ken Knull wrote:

> I'd say take a test drive of Mepis 3.3.1 on a live-CD without disturbing
> your existing winbloats and try.  Costs nothing, changes nothing...  you
> may find it easier than  you thought.  I sure did!
> 
> 	http://www.mepis.org/node/1462

ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/mepis/released/

So which one is the Live CD? Or just download/burn the ISO and boot from 
the CD (vs. installing from it)?

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at spamcop.net  Sun May 29 14:28:34 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 16:30:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
Message-ID: <d7d8lh$ig4$1@news.spamcop.net>

Martijn Lievaart wrote:

> I have my suspicions. What does a boot manager have to work with to store
> itself? Either you fit everything in the bootsector, or you need some
> additional harddisk space.

Well, say what you will... but earlier version of SC *did* fit nicely 
into the boot sector (without requiring its own partition).

It's been long enough that I don't remember, but it's also possible that 
the boot sector code was just a "stub" that loaded the rest of the 
program from one of the other partitions.

> So why FAT16 or FAT32? Easy. You have to choose something. FAT is pretty
> easy and well understood. It is supported by virtually every OS out there.
> It's the FS I would choose if I had to choose a FS for something like
> this. All other types of FS are overkill and developing your own FS is a
> waste of time if you can use existing code.

That wasn't my question, though you may have answered it indirectly.

But it still puzzles me that the error message (text) from SC (which I'm 
guessing is from the "stub" program) is able to boot the NTFS partition, 
even though it apparently can't find the rest of its own code located in 
the root directory of that partition.

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Sun May 29 23:53:50 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Sun May 29 16:55:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd9kauu.m29.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:15 -0700, John Richards coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> Finding Windows-equivalent software is all well and good, but when
> the Linux distro doesn't have a built-in driver for your modem, your 
> printer, or your video card, then what good is it...

That'll always be the case as long as people insist on buying WinModems 
(crappy sound cards with a phone jack and drivers that get the system 
CPU to do the modulation/demodulation, meaning that calling these 
devices "modems" is false advertizing). Drivers for printers of which 
the manufacturers don't deliberately impede the development of OSS 
drivers are almost always available (www.linuxprinting.org), and I've 
never had a graphics adapter that wasn't supported in X (whether XFree86 
or x.org).

-- 
Steve

Notice spotted in a field:
THE FARMER ALLOWS WALKERS TO CROSS THE FIELD
FOR FREE, BUT THE BULL CHARGES
From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Sun May 29 23:56:20 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Sun May 29 17:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnd9kb3k.m29.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:44:02 +0200, Martijn Lievaart coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>:

> - The Master boot sector, 512 bytes that also contains the master
> partition table. Not much space to write a serious program in. I used to
> develop custom bootloaders and it's a tight fit, let me tell you. Not an
> option for serious boot managers.

Get the bootloader to load in code as from physical sector number 'foo'. 
No need to know anything about the underlying filesystem structure.

-- 
Steve

"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day
 they start making vacuum cleaners."
       --- Ernst Jan Plugge
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Sun May 29 14:57:25 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Sun May 29 17:00:07 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 13:22:58 -0700, GregR wrote:

> Ken Knull wrote:
> 
>> I'd say take a test drive of Mepis 3.3.1 on a live-CD without disturbing
>> your existing winbloats and try.  Costs nothing, changes nothing...  you
>> may find it easier than  you thought.  I sure did!
>> 
>> 	http://www.mepis.org/node/1462
> 
> ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/mepis/released/
> 
> So which one is the Live CD? Or just download/burn the ISO and boot from
> the CD (vs. installing from it)?

Yup,  the .iso is what you want, to burn an IMAGE from.  Then boot it, and
it will be IN the Live CD ...  there is a menu option on the left IF you
want to install,  or test drive and run from the bootable image.

Ken

From nobody at spamcop.net  Sun May 29 15:05:47 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 17:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <d7dar9$jhm$1@news.spamcop.net>

Ken Knull wrote:

> Yup,  the .iso is what you want, to burn an IMAGE from.  

Yeah, I've done this a time or two...  :-)

> Then boot it, and
> it will be IN the Live CD ...  there is a menu option on the left IF you
> want to install,  or test drive and run from the bootable image.

That's pretty much what I surmised from their screenshots, but just 
wanted to be sure.

SuSE must include more stuff with their distro, since their LiveCD is a 
"cut-down" version of their normal installation CD.

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl  Mon May 30 00:47:00 2005
From: m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl (Martijn Lievaart)
Date: Sun May 29 17:50:16 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9kauu.m29.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <krppm2-amu.ln1@news.rtij.nl>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:53:50 +0200, Steven Maesslein wrote:

> and I've 
> never had a graphics adapter that wasn't supported in X (whether XFree86 
> or x.org).

Try Xinerama. It's supported, but you either get performance that reminds
you of your first XT or you have to use proprietary drivers. Or both.

I'm glad I kicked Windows a couple of years ago, but multihead support is
one of those areas OS is seriously lacking.

M4
-- 
Ah, the beauty of OSS. Hundreds of volunteers worldwide volunteering
their time inventing and implementing new, exciting ways for software
to suck. -- Toni Lassila in the Monastry

From aunt.jemima at pancake.box  Sun May 29 18:57:45 2005
From: aunt.jemima at pancake.box (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Sun May 29 18:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Networking TIVO
Message-ID: <d7ddsj$l9v$1@news.spamcop.net>

I noticed the recent upgrade in TIVO allows you to copy programs to your PC 
over the network.  Rather than run 100 feet of unsightly RJ-45 from my 
upstairs office to the living room, I am considering a wireless router.

I already have a router/firewall on my box, so I imagine I can hook the wifi 
into that and beam it to a point that is plugged into the TIVO -- then 
assume that I can switch from phone updating to live updating and also 
network storage of programs (so I can burn to disk and take on the road with 
my laptop).

Am I thinking in the right direction, or am I missing something?  Any tips 
on the best way to accompish this?

Thanks.


-- 
For DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES only...
http://tinyurl.com/aqszm




---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0521-5, 05/29/2005
Tested on: 5/29/2005 5:57:45 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com



From pantheus at suespammers.org  Sun May 29 15:58:18 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Sun May 29 18:00:08 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>
	<d7dar9$jhm$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.29.21.58.17.718672@suespammers.org>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 14:05:47 -0700, GregR wrote:

> SuSE must include more stuff with their distro, since their LiveCD is a
> "cut-down" version of their normal installation CD.

The .iso is compacted, and will expand.

Plus because Debian uses apt-get, you can go get whatever you want / need.

I'd suggest using the GUI frontend to apt-get called Synaptic.

from a root terminal (or su - password in any console) type  apt-get
update then apt-get install synaptic    Then load synaptic  and view the
17,000 plus apps awaiting you. 

Ken  
From aunt.jemima at pancake.box  Sun May 29 18:59:21 2005
From: aunt.jemima at pancake.box (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Sun May 29 18:00:10 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net> <d79e7c$k8l$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7ddvj$las$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:d79e7c$k8l$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Dwayne Conyers wrote:
>> I notice in some newsgroups I see "xxx messages not downloaded" and
>> there seems to be no way to download them.
>>
>> Worse, some groups show an ever increasing number and none of the
>> messages can be read.
>>
>> I've tried "catch up," unsubscribe and resubscribe, resetting...
>> nothing works.
>
> Of the many causes of xxx messages not downloaded I've dealt with, I
> have always been able to eliminate that condition by some combination of
> resetting and/or catch up.  What newsserver and which newsgroups?  This
> newsserver or some other?


Using Cox as ISP -- and their support seems to not even know what a news 
server is (pitiful) -- it is a minor nuisance... I'll live.  :-\


-- 
The Runaway Bride...
http://www.cafepress.com/dwacon/601709





---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0521-5, 05/29/2005
Tested on: 5/29/2005 5:59:21 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com



From m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl  Mon May 30 00:51:29 2005
From: m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl (Martijn Lievaart)
Date: Sun May 29 18:05:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
	<slrnd9kb3k.m29.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <14qpm2-5ou.ln1@news.rtij.nl>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 22:56:20 +0200, Steven Maesslein wrote:

> On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:44:02 +0200, Martijn Lievaart coughed into 
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>:
> 
>> - The Master boot sector, 512 bytes that also contains the master
>> partition table. Not much space to write a serious program in. I used to
>> develop custom bootloaders and it's a tight fit, let me tell you. Not an
>> option for serious boot managers.
> 
> Get the bootloader to load in code as from physical sector number 'foo'. 
> No need to know anything about the underlying filesystem structure.

You tried this? For any number of different filesystems? How did you deal
with defragmentors for NTFS?

M4
-- 
Ah, the beauty of OSS. Hundreds of volunteers worldwide volunteering
their time inventing and implementing new, exciting ways for software
to suck. -- Toni Lassila in the Monastry

From m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl  Mon May 30 01:35:09 2005
From: m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl (Martijn Lievaart)
Date: Sun May 29 18:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
	<d7d8lh$ig4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <tlspm2-puu.ln1@news.rtij.nl>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 13:28:34 -0700, GregR wrote:

> Martijn Lievaart wrote:
> 
>> I have my suspicions. What does a boot manager have to work with to store
>> itself? Either you fit everything in the bootsector, or you need some
>> additional harddisk space.
> 
> Well, say what you will... but earlier version of SC *did* fit nicely 
> into the boot sector (without requiring its own partition).

I suspect they used partition 0. The bootsector is only about 200 useable
bytes. Not much if you want to write a serios program.

> That wasn't my question, though you may have answered it indirectly.
> 
> But it still puzzles me that the error message (text) from SC (which I'm 
> guessing is from the "stub" program) is able to boot the NTFS partition, 
> even though it apparently can't find the rest of its own code located in 
> the root directory of that partition.

Strange. More detail? Sample software to check it out?

M4
-- 
Ah, the beauty of OSS. Hundreds of volunteers worldwide volunteering
their time inventing and implementing new, exciting ways for software
to suck. -- Toni Lassila in the Monastry

From nobody at spamcop.net  Sun May 29 16:44:20 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 18:45:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
In-Reply-To: <tlspm2-puu.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
	<d7d8lh$ig4$1@news.spamcop.net> <tlspm2-puu.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
Message-ID: <d7dgk4$mu9$1@news.spamcop.net>

Martijn Lievaart wrote:

> Strange. More detail? Sample software to check it out?

http://www.v-com.com/product/System_Commander_Home.html

You can d/l the program from that webpage. Don't know if they have a 
free trial version or not since I was upgrading - if not, I can post an 
earlier version on one of my own websites if you'd like to take a look 
at it.

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sun May 29 16:54:55 2005
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sun May 29 18:55:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Outlook Express
References: <d78qvq$am9$1@news.spamcop.net> <d79e7c$k8l$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d7ddvj$las$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7dh7v$n7a$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> Using Cox as ISP -- and their support seems to not even know what a
> news server is (pitiful) -- it is a minor nuisance... I'll live.  :-\

That is actually standard operation/condition for providers.  Whenever
you are talking to tech support about anything, just throw in a 'By the
way...' and ask if the tech ever visits newsgroups.  I will wager that
well over 90, maybe 95% of tech support has never used a newsreader.

And even the ones who have are generally not prepared to evaluate a news
related issue.  That is, if challenged to, 'Well then, just crank up
your newsreader and access....' -- no es posible


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From borgholio at storymind.com  Sun May 29 19:30:33 2005
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Sun May 29 21:35:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Networking TIVO
In-Reply-To: <d7ddsj$l9v$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d7ddsj$l9v$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7dqcf$rvi$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dwayne Conyers wrote:
> I noticed the recent upgrade in TIVO allows you to copy programs to your PC 
> over the network.  Rather than run 100 feet of unsightly RJ-45 from my 
> upstairs office to the living room, I am considering a wireless router.
> 
> I already have a router/firewall on my box, so I imagine I can hook the wifi 
> into that and beam it to a point that is plugged into the TIVO -- then 
> assume that I can switch from phone updating to live updating and also 
> network storage of programs (so I can burn to disk and take on the road with 
> my laptop).
> 
> Am I thinking in the right direction, or am I missing something?  Any tips 
> on the best way to accompish this?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 

They have devices that do exactly what you want.  First, you want to hook a 
wireless access point into your router.  Then, purchase a wireless bridge. 
Here are some examples:

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=36&prid=603

http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=241

http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=21

From nobody at nowhere.com.invalid  Mon May 30 00:25:54 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.com.invalid (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 23:30:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7d18p$dcf$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.18.36.55.274334@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.30.03.25.54.891801@nowhere.com.invalid>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:36:55 -0700, Ken Knull wrote:

> Nope, no problems with NIC / DSL router / WiFi router / and everything I
> have thrown at it with:
>      RedHat 3.5 through 9.x, Fedora Core 1,2,3, Debian, Mepis, slack, and
> a couple others - ONLY SuSE 9.0 wouldn't find it or use it.  It may have
> been able to be manually twisted to run - but why ?   There were a few
> other annoyances (to me), as well,  that have faded the memory by now.

Well, both SuSE and MEPIS found my NIC/DSL combo (D-Link/Siemens
SpeedStream) just fine and I was able to get out to the Internet without
any extra configuration. 

As always, YMMV. :-)

> Bottom line,  dance with what feels right for you (as long as Linus did
> the kernel)  ;-)

Well, here I am via Pan and the MEPIS LiveCD (not that I know how to drive
Pan by any means, it just seems to be fairly intuitive). 

I also downloaded Thunderbird and tried to install it, but after it sets
up the 'default' profile nothing seems to happen - might be an artifact of
running from the /RAMDISK and not a real install.

-- 
GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at nowhere.com.invalid  Mon May 30 00:29:10 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.com.invalid (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 23:30:12 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>
	<d7dar9$jhm$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.21.58.17.718672@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.30.03.29.10.813524@nowhere.com.invalid>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 14:58:18 -0700, Ken Knull wrote:

> The .iso is compacted, and will expand.

Yeah, I know that - but SuSE's LiveCD seems to be a lot smaller than MEPIS'.

> Plus because Debian uses apt-get, you can go get whatever you want / need.
> 
> I'd suggest using the GUI frontend to apt-get called Synaptic.

I think that's already here, at least it's on the LiveCD.

-- 
GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at nowhere.com.invalid  Mon May 30 00:35:18 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.com.invalid (GregR)
Date: Sun May 29 23:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.30.03.35.18.148855@nowhere.com.invalid>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 13:57:25 -0700, Ken Knull wrote:

> Yup,  the .iso is what you want, to burn an IMAGE from.  Then boot it, and
> it will be IN the Live CD ...  there is a menu option on the left IF you
> want to install,  or test drive and run from the bootable image.

BTW, I sure hope GuardDog (or some other firewall) is enabled by default,
I don't exactly like the thought of being "naked" on the Internet without
some protection from the bad guys (though I suppose it's less of a problem
with Linux than M$ stuff).

-- 
GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Mon May 30 00:05:52 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Mon May 30 02:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>
	<pan.2005.05.30.03.35.18.148855@nowhere.com.invalid>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.30.06.05.52.318475@suespammers.org>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:35:18 -0400, GregR wrote:

> BTW, I sure hope GuardDog (or some other firewall) is enabled by default,
> I don't exactly like the thought of being "naked" on the Internet without
> some protection from the bad guys (though I suppose it's less of a problem
> with Linux than M$ stuff).

Yes, it is,  but menu | system | guarddog  will let you add / subtract
protocols and / or close it to all but 80 (net), 21 (ftp), and as little
ormuch as you want / need 

Ken
From pantheus at suespammers.org  Mon May 30 00:10:24 2005
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken Knull)
Date: Mon May 30 02:15:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d8b0$i7v$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.20.57.25.11970@suespammers.org>
	<d7dar9$jhm$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.21.58.17.718672@suespammers.org>
	<pan.2005.05.30.03.29.10.813524@nowhere.com.invalid>
Message-ID: <pan.2005.05.30.06.10.23.787314@suespammers.org>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:29:10 -0400, GregR wrote:

> On Sun, 29 May 2005 14:58:18 -0700, Ken Knull wrote:
> 
>> The .iso is compacted, and will expand.
> 
> Yeah, I know that - but SuSE's LiveCD seems to be a lot smaller than
> MEPIS'.

The .iso you downloaded and are using has also the full package to
install, so it is larger for the whole disk than the others I've seen,
although I've not seen SuSE's live-cd  I went for the full 5 disk package
when I bought it for the hours failed use.

>>> I'd suggest using the GUI frontend to apt-get called Synaptic.
> 
> I think that's already here, at least it's on the LiveCD.

Simple to add or delete packages and get them auto-installed or fully
deleted..   it's a great package manager.

Ken

From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Mon May 30 11:05:10 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Mon May 30 04:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
	<slrnd9kb3k.m29.nobody@127.0.0.1> <14qpm2-5ou.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnd9li9m.2tn.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 23:51:29 +0200, Martijn Lievaart coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <14qpm2-5ou.ln1@news.rtij.nl>:

>> Get the bootloader to load in code as from physical sector number 'foo'. 
>> No need to know anything about the underlying filesystem structure.
>
> You tried this? For any number of different filesystems? How did you deal
> with defragmentors for NTFS?

Rerun the bootstrap installer after defragging. It'll update the 
references to the new location of the second stage. This is how LILO 
works.

GRUB, OTOH, has interpreters for various filesystems including ext2 and 
possibly NTFS, meaning that an intermediate step between the first stage 
(in the MBR usually) and the second stage which displays the boot menu 
etc. can access the filesystem, read the configuration file and load the 
second stage without having to reinstall something each time a change is 
made.

-- 
Steve

Reporter (to Mahatma Gandhi):
  "Mr. Gandhi, what do you think of Western civilisation?"
Gandhi:
  "I think it would be a good idea."
From Ilgaz at spamcop.net  Mon May 30 13:30:11 2005
From: Ilgaz at spamcop.net (Ilgaz Ocal)
Date: Mon May 30 05:35:11 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Mac OS X FileVault performance hit?
References: <pete+usenet-00FFB8.18331625052005@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <d7emf2$aav$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 2005-05-26 04:33:16 +0300, Pete Stephenson <pete+usenet@heypete.com> said:

> Greetings all,
> 
> I just enabled FileFault on my 2x2Ghz G5 last night, and it completed 
> it after a few hours.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced any sort of performance hit when using 
> FileVault, such as when playing video games or whatnot?
> 
> Cheers!

Filevault means: No cache (for many stuff), everything (every single 
sector that area) encyripted while being written and of course huge hit 
in performance.

I don't think its intended for desktop usage. Heard MI6 (british) spies 
forgetting their laptops at metro etc? Its for them :)

Besides, encyription is better achieved for _must be secure_ files 
using free PGP (free ver. of commercial) for easy usage or GPGP (Gnu 
one)

Especially games will be seriously hit by home directory encyription.

People needing that much security should buy card based encyription 
products (chip does the work), I don't know if they exist on mac.

Filevault means, the home folder of yours won't be readable to thiefs 
stealing your machine. So, I think, encyripting a "receipt" having your 
cc number via pgp is much easier than encyripting gigabytes of data.

If you are licensed Stuffit user (by any chance), it has excellent 
encyripted compression too. Mac OS X itself has encyripted disk images 
support too.

Ilgaz Ocal


From Ilgaz at spamcop.net  Mon May 30 13:52:53 2005
From: Ilgaz at spamcop.net (Ilgaz Ocal)
Date: Mon May 30 05:55:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Hardware Firewall
References: <slrnd8jdhr.39p.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d7enpl$b5r$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 2005-05-17 12:15:39 +0300, Steven Maesslein <nobody@nowhere.invalid> said:

> On Tue, 17 May 2005 09:53:19 +1000, Petzl coughed into spamcop.geeks 
> and left this in <d6bbpr$nr4$1@news.spamcop.net>:
> 
>> Re-format *is* what is needed for your brothers machine (maybe even buy 
>> a new one)
> 
> No need to buy a new machine but hooking the HDD up to the Mac (which I 
> assume also uses IDE drives) and running (as root) something like this 
> in a console should do it:
> 
> # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ad1
> 
> NB: this assumes that the disk is connected as the slave on the primary 
> IDE bus and that MacOS X uses the same notation as FreeBSD for disk 
> device nodes. RTFM just in case...
> 
> All it does is fill the disk up with zeroes, clobbering absolutely 
> everything including any bootsector code, MBR nasties etc.

Thanks to Steve Jobs , we moved to SATA years ago lol. There is no IDE 
on G5 desktop of mine.

I spent like $100 to make machine back to life, the stuff I bought was:

Stuffit 9 (hehe,obvious mac user), never advertised but excellent Vopt 
XP defragmenter from Golden Bow systems and to get rid of disgusting 
desktop, Theme XP.

Of course deleting the HD is the excellent solution unless guy left his 
original XP cdrom at Italy :) Also ALL of his cdroms.

I also say something to you win32 users. If there is a utility does 
chkdsk like (file based!) check, buy it. That VopT XP saved machines HD 
by stopping at first minor problem which others (norton) wouldn't. I 
did chkdsk /r on machine, it was ok, I did again, it was fine... But 
there were files in international chars unreadable by XP! I did a 
printout and deleted them old way (del command), now machine is at top 
shape.

I installed AVG 7 after Mr. Karpersky bugged for money too much (on 
trial), its fine... Just AVG6 was been able to be deleted from system, 
that gives many questions.

I had to hurry since guy decided to buy iBook while I am _sure_ he 
would be disgruntled soon because of e.g. his Motorola A1000 phone 
which would need Virtual PC 7 from microsoft to work.

Now, his machine boots as "Windows XP Pirated edition" to OS X Milk 
desktop theme :)

Also I wonder which virus will infect a sitx file ;)

Oh btw! If a moron friend of him didn't install some p2p crap to get 
4-5 mp3s, nothing would happen at all. Or if he enabled guest account 
and FORCE those jerks to use that way.

>From SP2 usage, I see MS did its best to secure computer but if a moron 
having a $100.000 limit CC uses the most evil p2p crap to get 5 mp3s 
living in Italy has access to system, there is nothing you can do.

Speaking of so called friends ;)

Ilgaz Ocal

From agent01413 at my-deja.com  Mon May 30 15:06:28 2005
From: agent01413 at my-deja.com (Socks the Whitehouse Cat)
Date: Mon May 30 10:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] cross site scripting
Message-ID: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>

Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in the 
dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly common in 
phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times every time I report 
a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the source of the warning)

What gives?

-- 
See  NANAE kooks, including Barbara Schwarz:
http://www.morningmist.org/nanae/kookfaq.html
From Kilgallen at SpamCop.net  Mon May 30 10:17:04 2005
From: Kilgallen at SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)
Date: Mon May 30 10:20:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: cross site scripting
References: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <TUl15OVBzgWr@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>, Socks the Whitehouse Cat <agent01413@my-deja.com> writes:
> Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in the 
> dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly common in 
> phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times every time I report 
> a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the source of the warning)

Have you tried disabling JavaScript and Cookies ?
From user at domain.invalid  Mon May 30 10:51:21 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Mon May 30 10:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: cross site scripting
In-Reply-To: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
References: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <d7f993$jha$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 30.05.2005 09:06, Socks the Whitehouse Cat wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in the 
> dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly common in 
> phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times every time I report 
> a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the source of the warning)
> 
> What gives?
> 

Are you running the latest 1.0.4 FF ??
From noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam  Mon May 30 13:26:12 2005
From: noah.boddie at newsgroup.nospam (Dwayne Conyers)
Date: Mon May 30 12:30:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Networking TIVO
References: <d7ddsj$l9v$1@news.spamcop.net> <d7dqcf$rvi$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7fequ$mbv$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:d7dqcf$rvi$1@news.spamcop.net...

> They have devices that do exactly what you want.  First, you want to hook 
> a wireless access point into your router.  Then, purchase a wireless 
> bridge. Here are some examples:
>
> http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=33&scid=36&prid=603
>
> http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=241
>
> http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=21
>


Thanks!


-- 
Should a man answer the tears of his child or the orders of his President?
http://www.dwacon.com/publications/pater_familias.asp


From jr70 at blackhole.invalid  Mon May 30 12:32:47 2005
From: jr70 at blackhole.invalid (John Richards)
Date: Mon May 30 14:35:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.29.18.40.34.753925@suespammers.org>
Message-ID: <d7fm8f$qjk$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Ken Knull" <pantheus@suespammers.org> wrote in message news:pan.2005.05.29.18.40.34.753925@suespammers.org...
> On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:15 -0700, John Richards wrote:
> 
>> Finding Windows-equivalent software is all well and good, but when the
>> Linux distro doesn't have a built-in driver for your modem, your printer,
>> or your video card, then what good is it... Win XP has all the drivers
>> included.
> 
> hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,  I guess you didn't read this:
> 
> http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/18/2033216

That's one user's experience, and not very representative at that.
I consider myself a savvy user, having worked with computers
since 1968, yet all three Linux distros I tried out last year left
me bewildered and frustrated.

-- 
John Richards
From jr70 at blackhole.invalid  Mon May 30 12:46:52 2005
From: jr70 at blackhole.invalid (John Richards)
Date: Mon May 30 14:50:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.03.26.36.113554@suespammers.org>
	<d7ac3a$3dg$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2005.05.28.20.33.46.803190@suespammers.org>
	<d7amrf$8qf$1@news.spamcop.net> <7m5i91t58b3nrs6hqbk81t1qjjs89slfa3@4ax.com>
	<pan.2005.05.29.01.45.52.476581@suespammers.org>
	<d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9kauu.m29.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d7fn2t$r3b$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Steven Maesslein" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message news:slrnd9kauu.m29.nobody@127.0.0.1...
> On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:10:15 -0700, John Richards coughed into 
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d7d0i8$d2i$1@news.spamcop.net>:
> 
>> Finding Windows-equivalent software is all well and good, but when
>> the Linux distro doesn't have a built-in driver for your modem, your 
>> printer, or your video card, then what good is it...
> 
> That'll always be the case as long as people insist on buying WinModems 
> (crappy sound cards with a phone jack and drivers that get the system 
> CPU to do the modulation/demodulation, meaning that calling these 
> devices "modems" is false advertizing). 

Which doesn't change the fact that the PC owned by the average user 
will have one of these WinModems, which will frustrate any attempt to
install Linux successfully on that box.

> Drivers for printers of which 
> the manufacturers don't deliberately impede the development of OSS 
> drivers are almost always available (www.linuxprinting.org), and I've

Searching for a suitable (non-included) printer driver is also beyond 
the comfort level of the average user.
 
> never had a graphics adapter that wasn't supported in X (whether XFree86 
> or x.org).

All I know is that my Matrox card would only come up in 640 x 480 (VGA)
resolution, and nowhere in the GUI was there a way to increase the
screen resolution. After much research I found a way to hand edit some
obscure file containing video parameter settings. WinXP had no problem
recognizing the card's capabilities.

-- 
John Richards
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Mon May 30 21:47:10 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Miss Betsy)
Date: Mon May 30 21:45:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] What is Ringo?
Message-ID: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>

A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
is it?

Miss Betsy



From agent01413 at my-deja.com  Tue May 31 02:52:17 2005
From: agent01413 at my-deja.com (Socks the Whitehouse Cat)
Date: Mon May 30 21:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: cross site scripting
References: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
	<d7f993$jha$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9666CA2627AFCagent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>

User <user@domain.invalid> wrote in news:d7f993$jha$1@news.spamcop.net:

> On 30.05.2005 09:06, Socks the Whitehouse Cat wrote:
> 
>  --- Original Message ---
> 
>> Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in
>> the dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly
>> common in phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times
>> every time I report a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the
>> source of the warning) 
>> 
>> What gives?
>> 
> 
> Are you running the latest 1.0.4 FF ??
> 

yes.

-- 
See  NANAE kooks, including Barbara Schwarz:
http://www.morningmist.org/nanae/kookfaq.html
From nobody at spamcop.net  Mon May 30 20:45:32 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Mon May 30 22:50:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
In-Reply-To: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7gj4j$bim$1@news.spamcop.net>

Miss Betsy wrote:

> A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
> is it?

He was the drummer for the Beatles back during their heyday, in recent 
years he's embarked on a semi-lucrative solo career:

http://www.ringostarr.com
http://www.beatlesagain.com/bringo.html

HTH...  :-)

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From nobody at spamcop.net  Mon May 30 20:48:10 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (GregR)
Date: Mon May 30 22:50:11 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
In-Reply-To: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7gj9h$bim$2@news.spamcop.net>

Miss Betsy wrote:

> A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
> is it?
> 
> Miss Betsy

On a less tongue-in-cheek note, perhaps this is what you're looking for?

http://www.ringo.com

-- 

GregR - Another Beemer Biker ...o&o>
From PossumTrot at dont.spam.me  Mon May 30 21:46:27 2005
From: PossumTrot at dont.spam.me (Possum Trot)
Date: Mon May 30 23:50:04 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7gmrf$dd9$1@news.spamcop.net>

Very weak privacy policy (see below).  I'd never consider using them.

Ringo may develop special sites in cooperation with other companies. If you 
register at these "co-branded" sites, we share your registration information 
(such as name and email address) with that company



"Miss Betsy" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net...
>A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
> is it?
>
> Miss Betsy
>
>
> 


From SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com  Mon May 30 22:36:08 2005
From: SCNews.5.myspamgobbler at spamgourmet.com (Brian (SnSR))
Date: Tue May 31 00:40:14 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
In-Reply-To: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7gple$ej6$1@news.spamcop.net>

Miss Betsy wrote:
> A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
> is it?
> 
> Miss Betsy
> 
> 
> 

What types of information does Ringo collect?
The minimum information we require for a membership on Ringo is full 
name, date of birth, username, password and verified email address.

Owned by Monster Worldwide, Inc.

Monster Worldwide, Inc. Formerly known as TMP Worldwide Inc. The Group 
operates under three business segments: Monster, Advertising and 
Communications, and Directional Marketing. The Monster segment provides 
its clients with one-stop-shopping for their recruitment needs online. 
The online services include providing free access to national and 
international job listings. The Advertising and Communications business 
designs global, national and local recruitment advertising campaigns for 
clients. The services provided include recruitment advertising, 
interactive communications, employer branding and employee 
communications. The Directional Marketing is a yellow pages advertising 
agency based on annual gross billings. The Group provides its services 
in North America, Europe and the Asia/Pacific region. On 31-Mar-2003, 
the Group spinned-off its subsidiary company Hudson Highland Group Inc. 
In 2004, the Group acquired Jobpilot GmbH from Adecco S A ,Military 
Advantage Inc. and Tickle Inc.

My suggestion is to stay away. Their privacy policy is not all that 
great, as Possum Trot noted.
From m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl  Tue May 31 10:05:48 2005
From: m at remove.this.part.rtij.nl (Martijn Lievaart)
Date: Tue May 31 03:10:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Boot Managers for NTFS partitions?
References: <d72m9q$h4i$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd99p2q.6b2.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d72qu6$l9r$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9b2pp.qmc.nobody@127.0.0.1>
	<d752r2$1cn$1@news.spamcop.net> <2lipm2-u0u.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
	<d7d8lh$ig4$1@news.spamcop.net> <tlspm2-puu.ln1@news.rtij.nl>
	<d7dgk4$mu9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <cvetm2-3hb.ln1@news.rtij.nl>

On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:44:20 -0700, GregR wrote:

> Martijn Lievaart wrote:
> 
>> Strange. More detail? Sample software to check it out?
> 
> http://www.v-com.com/product/System_Commander_Home.html
> 
> You can d/l the program from that webpage. Don't know if they have a 
> free trial version or not since I was upgrading - if not, I can post an 
> earlier version on one of my own websites if you'd like to take a look 
> at it.

No free trial. But no big deal either. For WindowsNT it is ultimately a
bit more complex, but just use the original bootloader for any OS. That
knows how to boot the OS in question. No need to understand the partition
it self, just load sector 0 at 0:c800 and jump to it.

M4
-- 
Ah, the beauty of OSS. Hundreds of volunteers worldwide volunteering
their time inventing and implementing new, exciting ways for software
to suck. -- Toni Lassila in the Monastry

From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Tue May 31 13:10:25 2005
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Tue May 31 06:15:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrnd9oe0h.30i.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:47:10 -0500, Miss Betsy coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
> is it?

Sounds like yet another Plaxo. You might want to educate your relatives 
about the risks of using such a system and why you would never have any 
third party maintain your personal info.

-- 
Steve

#define BITCOUNT(x)     (((BX_(x)+(BX_(x)>>4)) & 0x0F0F0F0F) % 255)
#define  BX_(x)         ((x) - (((x)>>1)&0x77777777)
                             - (((x)>>2)&0x33333333) 
                             - (((x)>>3)&0x11111111))

                -- really weird C code to count the number of bits in a word
From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Tue May 31 12:52:58 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Tue May 31 07:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9oe0h.30i.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Xns966731B64CCBBblammo@216.154.195.61>

On 31 May 2005 Steven Maesslein entered spamcop.geeks and left 
news:slrnd9oe0h.30i.nobody@127.0.0.1:

> Sounds like yet another Plaxo. You might want to educate your relatives 
> about the risks of using such a system and why you would never have any 
> third party maintain your personal info.
> 

I actually had a client ask me about Plaxo and I warned them of the 
dangers, pretty much the same thing that's been said here.

-- 
| Ric
|
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Tue May 31 08:30:37 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Miss Betsy)
Date: Tue May 31 08:25:15 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net> <d7gj4j$bim$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7hl2s$tn0$1@news.spamcop.net>


"GregR" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:d7gj4j$bim$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Miss Betsy wrote:
>
> > A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.
What
> > is it?
>
> He was the drummer for the Beatles back during their heyday, in
recent
> years he's embarked on a semi-lucrative solo career:
>
> http://www.ringostarr.com
> http://www.beatlesagain.com/bringo.html
>
> HTH...  :-)

If I had wanted to know about him, I would've asked "Who is Ringo?"
But I remember him very well, thank you. (and I should have known
someone would give me a reply like that! :))

Miss Betsy


From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Tue May 31 08:37:53 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Miss Betsy)
Date: Tue May 31 08:35:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrnd9oe0h.30i.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <d7hlge$u5u$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Steven Maesslein" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnd9oe0h.30i.nobody@127.0.0.1...
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:47:10 -0500, Miss Betsy coughed into
> spamcop.geeks and left this in <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net>:
>
> > A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.
What
> > is it?
>
> Sounds like yet another Plaxo. You might want to educate your
relatives
> about the risks of using such a system and why you would never
have any
> third party maintain your personal info.
>
> -- 
> Steve
>
> #define BITCOUNT(x)     (((BX_(x)+(BX_(x)>>4)) & 0x0F0F0F0F) %
255)
> #define  BX_(x)         ((x) - (((x)>>1)&0x77777777)
>                              - (((x)>>2)&0x33333333)
>                              - (((x)>>3)&0x11111111))
>
>                 -- really weird C code to count the number of
bits in a word

Thanks to all who answered.  I remember discussions about the other
one (Plaxo), but wondered if this was better.

And all that C code reminds me of the class I took (just to prove
to my friends and families that I really could program).  Lots of
stories (first time back in class in 30 years), but one of the
things I did was to misunderstand the directions and spent hours
writing the code for rounding a number!  Of course, the real object
of the homework was entirely different!  If it is C code, it has
been years since I took the class.

Miss  Betsy


From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Tue May 31 13:38:27 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Tue May 31 08:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: cross site scripting
References: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <Xns9667396BF3B27blammo@216.154.195.61>

On 30 May 2005 Socks the Whitehouse Cat entered spamcop.geeks and left
news:Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61: 

> Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in
> the dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly
> common in phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times
> every time I report a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the
> source of the warning) 
> 

Which page do you get that warning on?
Report Spam page or Reports Sent
Is it www.spamcop.net (cookie login)?

I don't believe Firefox has anything to do with it, since you said it's 
because of the anti-phish toolbar.
-- 
| Ric
|
From Kilgallen at SpamCop.net  Tue May 31 09:00:41 2005
From: Kilgallen at SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)
Date: Tue May 31 09:05:17 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <d7gfcc$9n7$1@news.spamcop.net> <d7gj9h$bim$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <er+pZv7agDZj@eisner.encompasserve.org>

In article <d7gj9h$bim$2@news.spamcop.net>, GregR <nobody@spamcop.net> writes:
> Miss Betsy wrote:
> 
>> A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
>> is it?
>> 
>> Miss Betsy
> 
> On a less tongue-in-cheek note, perhaps this is what you're looking for?
> 
> http://www.ringo.com

Looks like a spam source.  I have a similar service blacklisted.
From Ilgaz at spamcop.net  Tue May 31 17:23:13 2005
From: Ilgaz at spamcop.net (Ilgaz Ocal)
Date: Tue May 31 09:25:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <er+pZv7agDZj@eisner.encompasserve.org>
Message-ID: <d7hog1$vfv$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 2005-05-31 16:00:41 +0300, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) said:

> In article <d7gj9h$bim$2@news.spamcop.net>, GregR <nobody@spamcop.net> writes:
>> Miss Betsy wrote:
>> 
>>> A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.  What
>>> is it?
>>> 
>>> Miss Betsy
>> 
>> On a less tongue-in-cheek note, perhaps this is what you're looking for?
>> 
>> http://www.ringo.com
> 
> Looks like a spam source.  I have a similar service blacklisted.

There are actual people adding friends mail, name, even phone number on 
such services.

Its about literacy of person and the privacy manner.

I asked a friend: "Man? You are aware you have a Symbian UIQ Phone 
which has everything for messaging,mail etc you don't need those sorry 
sms services?" he said "But they added me"

So, sadly there is nothing could be done about it. E.g. reporting them 
would hurt the spamcop reports credibility as they are all legit mails.

Don't be surprised if you are european and get mail from sms.ac.uk , same deal

In 2005, companies spending billions for anti spam measures, people 
using internet for years are giving their friends mails,phone numbers 
to a random popped up company.

That is it :) Same people in 50's giving their friends name/address for 
a stupid gift from salesman lives in 2005 with 3G equipped cellphones 
for couple of free sms or something :)

Ilgaz Ocal

From user at domain.invalid  Tue May 31 11:52:30 2005
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Tue May 31 11:55:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: cross site scripting
In-Reply-To: <Xns9667396BF3B27blammo@216.154.195.61>
References: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
	<Xns9667396BF3B27blammo@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <d7i17j$4c6$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 31.05.2005 07:38, Blammo wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 30 May 2005 Socks the Whitehouse Cat entered spamcop.geeks and left
> news:Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61: 
> 
>> Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in
>> the dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly
>> common in phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times
>> every time I report a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the
>> source of the warning) 
>> 
> 
> Which page do you get that warning on?
> Report Spam page or Reports Sent
> Is it www.spamcop.net (cookie login)?
> 
> I don't believe Firefox has anything to do with it, since you said it's 
> because of the anti-phish toolbar.

Netcraft Toolbar is available for Firefox:

http://channels.lockergnome.com/windows/archives/20050526_netcraft_toolbar_for_firefox.phtml
From agent01413 at my-deja.com  Tue May 31 18:07:04 2005
From: agent01413 at my-deja.com (Socks the Whitehouse Cat)
Date: Tue May 31 13:10:02 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: cross site scripting
References: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
	<Xns9667396BF3B27blammo@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <Xns96677115FF432agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>

Blammo <nttp.sc.sg@bigsleep.org> wrote in news:Xns9667396BF3B27blammo@
216.154.195.61:

> On 30 May 2005 Socks the Whitehouse Cat entered spamcop.geeks and left
> news:Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61: 
> 
>> Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in
>> the dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly
>> common in phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times
>> every time I report a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the
>> source of the warning) 
>> 
> 
> Which page do you get that warning on?
> Report Spam page or Reports Sent
> Is it www.spamcop.net (cookie login)?
> 
> I don't believe Firefox has anything to do with it, since you said it's 
> because of the anti-phish toolbar.

http://www.spamcop.net/

note i was already logged in



-- 
See  NANAE kooks, including Barbara Schwarz:
http://www.morningmist.org/nanae/kookfaq.html
From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Tue May 31 18:59:48 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Tue May 31 14:00:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: cross site scripting
References: <Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
	<Xns9667396BF3B27blammo@216.154.195.61>
	<Xns96677115FF432agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <Xns96676FE7828C1blammo@216.154.195.61>

On 31 May 2005 Socks the Whitehouse Cat entered spamcop.geeks and left 
news:Xns96677115FF432agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61:

> Blammo <nttp.sc.sg@bigsleep.org> wrote in news:Xns9667396BF3B27blammo@
> 216.154.195.61:
> 
>> On 30 May 2005 Socks the Whitehouse Cat entered spamcop.geeks and left
>> news:Xns9666527AEB296agent01413MYDEJACOM@216.154.195.61: 
>> 
>>> Firefox keeps giving me a warning message that Spamcop is engaged in
>>> the dastardly deed of "cross site scripting" which is reportedly
>>> common in phishing attacks. I get that warning a half dozen times
>>> every time I report a spam.  (The netcraft anti-phish toolbar is the
>>> source of the warning) 
>>> 
>> 
>> Which page do you get that warning on?
>> Report Spam page or Reports Sent
>> Is it www.spamcop.net (cookie login)?
>> 
>> I don't believe Firefox has anything to do with it, since you said it's 
>> because of the anti-phish toolbar.
> 
> http://www.spamcop.net/
> 
> note i was already logged in
> 
> 
> 

Hmm, I think there's a bug in the Netcraft anti-phish toolbar. I don't see 
anything that would trigger it, but I do see a URL in a script comment, it 
could be picking up on something like that.

You need an option to ignore sites, I imagine some spam would trigger it 
while you are reporting. That isn't what you want, or is it?

NOTE to Julian: There's a <style> tag in the body of the home page, which 
is illegal, it looks like an artifact (in case someone at Spamcop will read 
this).

-- 
| Ric
|
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Tue May 31 17:12:06 2005
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Miss Betsy)
Date: Tue May 31 17:10:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <er+pZv7agDZj@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d7hog1$vfv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7ijkl$ehq$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Ilgaz Ocal" <Ilgaz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:d7hog1$vfv$1@news.spamcop.net...
> On 2005-05-31 16:00:41 +0300, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry
Kilgallen) said:
>
> > In article <d7gj9h$bim$2@news.spamcop.net>, GregR
<nobody@spamcop.net> writes:
> >> Miss Betsy wrote:
> >>
> >>> A couple of relatives want us to update information on Ringo.
What
> >>> is it?
> >>>
> >>> Miss Betsy
> >>
> >> On a less tongue-in-cheek note, perhaps this is what you're
looking for?
> >>
> >> http://www.ringo.com
> >
> > Looks like a spam source.  I have a similar service
blacklisted.
>
> There are actual people adding friends mail, name, even phone
number on
> such services.
>
> Its about literacy of person and the privacy manner.
>

Actually, I went ahead and updated (which meant I signed up) with
my spammy email address.  They actually wanted my hotmail password!
Which I didn't give them and although they knew I had entered a
bogus one, I got signed up anyway.  They are members of Habeus and
have links with hotmail and yahoo somehow - looks very legitimate.

When, oh when, is Ralph Nader (or his clone) going to start taking
an interest?  I am really disappointed that Consumer Reports hasn't
started rating ISPs.

Miss Betsy


From nobody at spamcop.net  Tue May 31 18:34:04 2005
From: nobody at spamcop.net (Dave Lerner)
Date: Tue May 31 17:35:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
In-Reply-To: <d7ijkl$ehq$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <er+pZv7agDZj@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d7hog1$vfv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d7ijkl$ehq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <d7il88$fib$1@news.spamcop.net>

Miss Betsy wrote on 05/31/2005 05:12 PM:

> When, oh when, is Ralph Nader (or his clone) going to start taking
> an interest?  I am really disappointed that Consumer Reports hasn't
> started rating ISPs.

What criteria would they use? :)
From nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org  Tue May 31 23:35:09 2005
From: nttp.sc.sg at bigsleep.org (Blammo)
Date: Tue May 31 18:40:03 2005
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: What is Ringo?
References: <er+pZv7agDZj@eisner.encompasserve.org>
	<d7hog1$vfv$1@news.spamcop.net> <d7ijkl$ehq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<d7il88$fib$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <Xns96679E963BF60blammo@216.154.195.61>

On 31 May 2005 Dave Lerner entered spamcop.geeks and left 
news:d7il88$fib$1@news.spamcop.net:

> Miss Betsy wrote on 05/31/2005 05:12 PM:
> 
>> When, oh when, is Ralph Nader (or his clone) going to start taking
>> an interest?  I am really disappointed that Consumer Reports hasn't
>> started rating ISPs.
> 
> What criteria would they use? :)
> 

Probably whatever the current hype is, lately it's been spam filtering, 
virus filtering and now port blocking. The junk I usually want disabled.

-- 
| Ric
|