From kenbrody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar  1 11:48:51 2006
From: kenbrody at spamcop.net (Kenneth Brody)
Date: Wed Mar  1 11:55:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Strange SMTP problem
Message-ID: <4405D073.32E30741@spamcop.net>

(I've submitted a ticket to my ISP's support, but I'm wondering if anyone
here has seen this before.)

Sometime between Monday afternoon and Tuesday morning, my ISP's SMTP
server stopped working.  By that, I mean that this is how the conversation
with the server goes:

  220 mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net -- Server ESMTP (Sun Java System Messaging
  Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005))
  helo cv.net
  250 mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net OK, MUNGE.optonline.net [69.118.MUNGE].
  mail from: <MUNGE>
  250 2.5.0 Address Ok.
  rcpt to: <MUNGE>
  250 2.1.5 MUNGE OK.
  data


  Connection to host lost.

(The server name in the 220 message varies.)

At first, I thought it was Norton Antivirus, as it would pop up a message
saying something vague about the "connection" being "interrupted".  So I
disabled outgoing e-mail scans, and then Netscape starting complaing that
it got an error from the server, but Netscape claimed that the error was
"2.1.5 MUNGE OK." which didn't make any sense.  (I double-checked, and
code "250" is "success".)  Finally, a direct telnet to the server gave me
the above transcript (more than once), leaving their SMTP server as the
only possible failure point.

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+
| Kenneth J. Brody        | www.hvcomputer.com |                             |
| kenbrody/at\spamcop.net | www.fptech.com     | #include <std_disclaimer.h> |
+-------------------------+--------------------+-----------------------------+
Don't e-mail me at: <mailto:ThisIsASpamTrap@gmail.com>

From bud at telus.net  Wed Mar  1 11:21:28 2006
From: bud at telus.net (Bud)
Date: Wed Mar  1 14:25:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Is there a way of doing it?
Message-ID: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net>

Some say I have 'way too much time on my hands.

In OE when I mail my friends and family, I dress it up with stationary, 
various fonts and so on. I also insert a midi file which plays when the mail 
is opened. They all seem to enjoy it. Recently I decided to send an MP3 
which I inserted as 'background' from the Format toolbar the same as I was 
doing with MIDI. But apparently no one was hearing any music. When I went 
into 'Sent' and opened it, the music file played so I thought they also 
heard it.

It seems a WAV. or MP3 file can't be inserted except by attachment which is 
no big deal because anyone getting mail from me will not hesitate to open an 
attachment. I just wondered if there was a way to have a music file other 
than MIDI play upon opening the mail.
Now if someone else has more time on their hands than they should have would 
you let me know if I'm bangin' my head against a wall?
--
Bud 


From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar  1 17:20:45 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed Mar  1 17:25:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <du56nt$tij$1@news.spamcop.net>



Bud wrote:
> Some say I have 'way too much time on my hands.
>
> In OE when I mail my friends and family, I dress it up with
> stationary, various fonts and so on. I also insert a midi file which
> plays when the mail is opened.

Damn, I'm sure glad I'm not one of your friends or family, that kind of crap
would drive me berserk! I despise stationary, and midis.....well, there's a
special place in hell for folks that use those ;-)


From MikeE at ster.invalid  Wed Mar  1 16:58:19 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Wed Mar  1 20:00:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <du5fuu$3bp$1@news.spamcop.net>

Bud wrote:

> In OE when I mail my friends and family, I dress it up with
> stationary, various fonts and so on. I also insert a midi file which
> plays when the mail is opened.

Ack!!

>  They all seem to enjoy it.

I seriously doubt it.  I more imagine that they know that you enjoy
putting it together and so they tolerate it for your amusement or
enjoyment.  Or maybe about one 'kinda' likes it and the vast majority
don't want to hurt your feelings by telling you that they have no use
for it.

People are very disinclined to tell someone that something that they put
some effort into personalizing isn't their own cup of tea.  "I know you
made that dress, but it is really ugly and I don't even like that style
or those colors anyway."  Not gonna happen.

They are glad to hear from you and they like what you have to say in the
content, but in my mind and I don't know these people who are your
family and not mine, I would imagine that they would almost all rather
just hear from you.

Why don't you send your next few letters as plaintext, and see how many
request that you go back to doctoring them up.  Receiving that kind of
'stuff' should be an opt-in process, not an opt-out -- because it is a
social issue and no one is going to opt-out.  Instead they are going to
feign that they really like it.

But, that's just my opinion -- I'm very 'opinioned' - as if that were
somehow different from 'opinionated'.


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar  2 11:10:08 2006
From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean)
Date: Thu Mar  2 06:35:07 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
In-Reply-To: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <jd0jd3-r8k.ln1@mothlight.dyndns.org>

Bud wrote:
> Some say I have 'way too much time on my hands.
> 
> It seems a WAV. or MP3 file can't be inserted except by attachment which is 
> no big deal because anyone getting mail from me will not hesitate to open an 
> attachment. I just wondered if there was a way to have a music file other 
> than MIDI play upon opening the mail.
> Now if someone else has more time on their hands than they should have would 
> you let me know if I'm bangin' my head against a wall?

Apparently the tag is something like:
<EMBED SRC=your_file.mp3 AUTOSTART=true HIDDEN=true LOOP=1>
See:
http://www.hardwaregeeks.com/board/archive/index.php/t-22365.html

But I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't always work.  With that 
recent really nasty security flaw in OE with wmv and mp3 files, 
eventually Microsoft is going to lock down some of those things that 
just automatically play.  Or at least they should.  Perhaps they have 
already:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS02-072.mspx

But I agree with the others.  I've gone to great lengths to shut off any 
of that stuff that happens automatically without me starting it first. 
It would really piss me off if some email started singing to me just by 
opening it.
From user at domain.invalid  Thu Mar  2 11:12:59 2006
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Thu Mar  2 12:15:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Not Listed In bl.spamcop.net ??!!
Message-ID: <du791s$6e2$1@news.spamcop.net>

Mail
>>>> rejected because [64.62.161.203] is listed in bl.spamcop.net -
>>>> see: http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml?64.62.161.203

Why is one of my user's incoming mail being blocked on my server if the
IP 64.62.161.203 is NOT shown as being listed in bl.spamcop.net ??

And is there ANY way to unblock this particular IP on my server?
White_List only goes through SpamAssassin as far as I know.

Thanks
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Thu Mar  2 09:31:31 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Thu Mar  2 12:35:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Not Listed In bl.spamcop.net ??!!
References: <du791s$6e2$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <du7a57$72e$1@news.spamcop.net>

User wrote:
> Mail
>>>>> rejected because [64.62.161.203] is listed in bl.spamcop.net -
>>>>> see: http://spamcop.net/bl.shtml?64.62.161.203
>
> Why is one of my user's incoming mail being blocked on my server if
> the IP 64.62.161.203 is NOT shown as being listed in bl.spamcop.net ??

64.62.161.203  rDNS  hibiscus.onlinepolicy.net
is an output server with a rough estimate of daily output of about
10-20,000 items per day

It is not currently listed anywhere including SC.  We cannot see the
listing history of an IP if it isn't currently listed.  It could have
been listed and automatically delisted now.  The SCbl is extremely
dynamic.

> And is there ANY way to unblock this particular IP on my server?
> White_List only goes through SpamAssassin as far as I know.

You are asking /us/ how to whitelist an IP on your server that you
haven't named its software?  Hmmm.

My free client side spamfilter SpamPal can whitelist an IP.  If you are
running a server you should know what its software is and how to
configure it.


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From bud at telus.net  Thu Mar  2 09:59:14 2006
From: bud at telus.net (Bud)
Date: Thu Mar  2 13:00:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <du7bpm$88b$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Bud" <bud@telus.net> wrote in message news:du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net...


The reason for my original post was precisely because I received email which 
'wondered' where the music was. I was trying to embed an MP3 which didn't 
work.

To the replies here, that the recipients would not appreciate music with 
their mail;.... I would not be sending it you. I also don't embellish all my 
outgoing mail. A gaggle of nieces and nephews however enjoy them. There is 
one exception; a brother whose reader is configured to 'read/send' plain 
text only, and whose PC speakers barely rival the technology of an RCA 
Victrola. He also gives a Christmas card to his wife with the words, Seasons 
Greetings. His emails have a, To Whom It May Concern flavour, in plain text 
on white stationary in Arial 10. Not for me. OK for 'Letters to the 
Editor'.................and SC.

The assumption that my selected mail recipients would not appreciate an 
imbedded music file is baseless and unwarranted. Better would have been 
"....there is no way to do it". I can handle that. I also could have posted 
in .social where it's open season. I posted in .geeks because it was a 
legitimate tech. question; ...... for me.

I don't post often and to 'regulars' my posts may seem trivial to 'hard 
core' members but all I'm looking for is a possible solution to a question.

But anyway, thanks for the 'advice'.

..........also thanks for the link to 'hardware geeks'. That might work.

--

Bud


From MikeE at ster.invalid  Thu Mar  2 10:42:50 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Thu Mar  2 13:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net> <du7bpm$88b$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <du7eat$9ji$1@news.spamcop.net>

Bud wrote:

> 'hard core' members but all I'm looking for is a possible solution to
> a question.

You can only use:

Audio files .wav, .snd, .au, .aif, .aifc, .aiff
MIDI files .mid, .rmi, .midi
Real Media files .ra, .rm, .ram, .rmm

not mp3 or .wma.  You do it with the background sound.

OE/ Format/ Background/ Sound - navigate.  The fileselector shows the
extensions which can be used.  The alert when the sound fails to play
may be about a 'picture' rather than sound.

kb 883355

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/883355  You cannot use an MP3 or WMA
file as the background sound for an e-mail message in Outlook Express

Other sound in email troubleshooting in kb 263065

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/263065/  OLEXP: How to Troubleshoot
Audio Problems in Outlook Express E-mail Messages


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net  Thu Mar  2 20:48:40 2006
From: anthony.edwards at uk.easynet.net (Anthony Edwards)
Date: Thu Mar  2 15:50:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net> <du56nt$tij$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <du7ln8$e4a$1@news.spamcop.net>

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:20:45 -0500, indigo <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote:

> Damn, I'm sure glad I'm not one of your friends or family, that kind of crap
> would drive me berserk! I despise stationary, and midis.....well, there's a
> special place in hell for folks that use those ;-)

But why would you even notice it?  You might like to try Mutt:

http://www.mutt.org/

-- 
Anthony Edwards              *     anthony.edwards@uk.easynet.net
Abuse Team Manager           *     Tel: 0800 053 0588
Easynet Ltd                  *     DDI: 0161 227 0707
http://www.uk.easynet.net    *     Fax: 0845 333 4503
From bud at telus.net  Thu Mar  2 15:11:56 2006
From: bud at telus.net (Bud)
Date: Thu Mar  2 18:15:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net> <du7bpm$88b$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<du7eat$9ji$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <du7u40$imb$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:du7eat$9ji$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Bud wrote:
>
>> 'hard core' members but all I'm looking for is a possible solution to
>> a question.
>
> You can only use:
>
> Audio files .wav, .snd, .au, .aif, .aifc, .aiff
> MIDI files .mid, .rmi, .midi
> Real Media files .ra, .rm, .ram, .rmm
>
> not mp3 or .wma.  You do it with the background sound.
>
> OE/ Format/ Background/ Sound - navigate.  The fileselector shows the
> extensions which can be used.  The alert when the sound fails to play
> may be about a 'picture' rather than sound.
>
> kb 883355
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/883355  You cannot use an MP3 or WMA
> file as the background sound for an e-mail message in Outlook Express
>
> Other sound in email troubleshooting in kb 263065
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/263065/  OLEXP: How to Troubleshoot
> Audio Problems in Outlook Express E-mail Messages
>
>
> -- 
> Mike Easter
> kibitzer, not SC admin

Thanks Mike, that's the response I was asking for.
I appreciate it.
--
Bud 


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Fri Mar  3 00:25:19 2006
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Thu Mar  2 18:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net> <du56nt$tij$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<du7ln8$e4a$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne0evmv.h8i.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:48:40 +0000 (UTC), Anthony Edwards coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in <du7ln8$e4a$1@news.spamcop.net>:

>> Damn, I'm sure glad I'm not one of your friends or family, that kind of crap
>> would drive me berserk! I despise stationary, and midis.....well, there's a
>> special place in hell for folks that use those ;-)
>
> But why would you even notice it?  You might like to try Mutt:
>
> http://www.mutt.org/

Either that or run your inbound mail through this:

http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/stripmail/

-- 
Steve

Stupidity is NOT a handicap. Park elsewhere!
From nobody at spamcop.net  Fri Mar  3 17:56:41 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Fri Mar  3 18:00:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net> <du56nt$tij$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<du7ln8$e4a$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duahj9$a0q$1@news.spamcop.net>



Anthony Edwards wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:20:45 -0500, indigo <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> > Damn, I'm sure glad I'm not one of your friends or family, that
> > kind of crap would drive me berserk! I despise stationary, and
> > midis.....well, there's a special place in hell for folks that use
> > those ;-)
>
> But why would you even notice it?  You might like to try Mutt:
>
> http://www.mutt.org/

I work for a corporation. Nuff said.


From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Sat Mar  4 03:35:19 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Sat Mar  4 06:40:23 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Geeky Gadgets
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>

Greetings all,

I'm looking for two geeky gadgets, but am curious if anyone has any 
hands-on experience.

1. USB fingerprint reader. Should be WinXP compatible, and work with 
Firefox. It should have software necessary to store (and backup) 
usernames and passwords for Windows, various websites, etc. It'd be 
preferably if, when prompted by the website for the login/pass, it'd 
prompt me for my fingerprint. When it receives the fingerprint, it 
should automatically fill in the necessary forms in the browser. Any 
suggestions?

2. Wireless network camera. Should be outdoor-capable, and preferably 
able to connect to an 802.11g network. Many I've seen connect to "b" 
networks with WEP encryption, but I use "g" with WPA/WPA2. I'd prefer to 
use WPA over WEP for obvious reasons. Pan-and-tilt and zoom would be 
nice, as would audio, but isn't necessary.

Just some geeky gadgets I'm thinking of putting on my wish list, but 
nothing serious for now.

Muchos thanks!

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From six.million at dollar.man  Sat Mar  4 08:48:59 2006
From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn)
Date: Sat Mar  4 08:50:10 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] boot-up woes
Message-ID: <duc5s4$57r$1@news.spamcop.net>

I notice on occasion, my Windows Server 2003 Standard edition box (Dell 
Precision) will boot up incapable of cut or paste.  I have to reboot to 
enable it.  I am wondering if some service is not starting and if I can 
manually launch it to avoid the hassle of rebooting.

Also, on random reboots the video driver will cause the entire screen to 
flash every six seconds.  It is just an annoyance, but again wondering if 
the NVIDIA GeForce 256 drivers are buggy (checked for update and the wizard 
could not find a better match).

Finally, I typically keep at least one window maximized (usually working 
with Outlook, IE and one other app).  When I want to minimize all to show 
the desktop, the system freezes for 3 seconds.  Could it be a memory thing 
with my graphically intensive desktop background?  That is my guess, just 
wanted to know if perhaps any other ideas.

I have daily updated AV and Spyware (Zone Alarm Security Suite and Pest 
Patrol) and do full scan once a week -- comes up clean.  Also have hardware 
router to fortify software firewall... so pretty sure no one is hacking 
in... at least I hope.

Thanks in advance!


--
dwacon 


From devnull at spamcop.net  Sat Mar  4 08:55:10 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Sat Mar  4 09:00:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <duc692$5g1$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Pete Stephenson" <

| 2. Wireless network camera. Should be outdoor-capable, and preferably
| able to connect to an 802.11g network. Many I've seen connect to "b"
| networks with WEP encryption, but I use "g" with WPA/WPA2. I'd prefer to
| use WPA over WEP for obvious reasons. Pan-and-tilt and zoom would be
| nice, as would audio, but isn't necessary.
|

I'd be interesed in what you find on this as I've a project for a local
nonprofit that needs a vidio security system and I'd like to do the deed
over the internet to give them a web cam system in the package.


From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com  Sat Mar  4 14:36:25 2006
From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean)
Date: Sat Mar  4 09:40:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
In-Reply-To: <duc692$5g1$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<duc692$5g1$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duc8lf$74a$1@news.spamcop.net>

Frog Prince wrote:
> "Pete Stephenson" <
> 
> | 2. Wireless network camera. Should be outdoor-capable, and preferably
> | able to connect to an 802.11g network. Many I've seen connect to "b"
> | networks with WEP encryption, but I use "g" with WPA/WPA2. I'd prefer to
> | use WPA over WEP for obvious reasons. Pan-and-tilt and zoom would be
> | nice, as would audio, but isn't necessary.
> 
> I'd be interesed in what you find on this as I've a project for a local
> nonprofit that needs a vidio security system and I'd like to do the deed
> over the internet to give them a web cam system in the package.

Do you specifically need the camera to be wireless?  If not, it seems 
more like a software problem.  If you find just a normal webcam and hook 
it up to a computer, there is software that allows you to run a server 
that allows the camera to be controlled remotely.

Or what exactly do you want done remotely?  If it is a security system, 
you are not going to control it all the time so most of the time the 
camera will be on its own doing whatever it was programmed to do.  Do 
you just want a way to see the pictures it captured or what exactly are 
you looking for?
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Sat Mar  4 16:54:51 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Sat Mar  4 19:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] can't read hd in enclosure
Message-ID: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>

Very OT

I cannot read the files from a hard drive in a HD Enclosure connected to a 
windows xp computer. The hard drive is able to boot to windows 98se so is 
viable.

This problem occurs with several enclosures, several windows xp computers 
and several hard drives (all boot to windows 98se - so all are viable.)

The windows xp computers find the 'new hardware', and progress through the 
new hardware routine and say that the hardware is now usable.

The enclosure does not appear in the explorer but is listed in the device 
manager. Device manager says the drive is functional.

Any ideas as to how to read the files from the external hard drive??


From devnull at spamcop.net  Sat Mar  4 20:25:55 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Sat Mar  4 20:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<duc692$5g1$1@news.spamcop.net> <duc8lf$74a$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dudf7n$t5a$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mr K. Mean"

| > | 2. Wireless network camera. Should be outdoor-capable, and preferably
| > | able to connect to an 802.11g network. Many I've seen connect to "b"
| > | networks with WEP encryption, but I use "g" with WPA/WPA2. I'd prefer
to
| > | use WPA over WEP for obvious reasons. Pan-and-tilt and zoom would be
| > | nice, as would audio, but isn't necessary.
| >
| > I'd be interested in what you find on this as I've a project for a local
| > nonprofit that needs a video security system and I'd like to do the deed
| > over the internet to give them a web cam system in the package.
|
| Do you specifically need the camera to be wireless?  If not, it seems
| more like a software problem.  If you find just a normal webcam and hook
| it up to a computer, there is software that allows you to run a server
| that allows the camera to be controlled remotely.
|
| Or what exactly do you want done remotely?  If it is a security system,
| you are not going to control it all the time so most of the time the
| camera will be on its own doing whatever it was programmed to do.  Do
| you just want a way to see the pictures it captured or what exactly are
| you looking for?

We have a bunch of refurbished bank security equipment (long story but the
company pulled the equipment and their tech support refurbished and donated
the stuff)

I've not seen it yet but understand it's all hard wire. All we need do is
buy either a VCR or some other method of recording the video (HDD?).  We've
six cameras currently and likely will expand the coverage with both hardware
and wireless.


From six.million at dollar.man  Sun Mar  5 12:05:39 2006
From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn)
Date: Sun Mar  5 12:10:14 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Narrowed down part of the problem
Message-ID: <duf5p3$nkv$1@news.spamcop.net>

It seems that launching IE6 starts the six-second screen flashing.  I ran 
the latest Microsoft hotfixes but the problem persists.  Will try installing 
Firefox to see if it is an IE specific problem.

Any other tips appreciated. 


From pantheus at suespammers.org  Sun Mar  5 11:07:14 2006
From: pantheus at suespammers.org (Ken)
Date: Sun Mar  5 14:10:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Narrowed down part of the problem
References: <duf5p3$nkv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2006.03.05.19.07.14.133568@suespammers.org>

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:05:39 -0500, dw?c?n wrote:

> It seems that launching IE6 starts the six-second screen flashing.  I ran 
> the latest Microsoft hotfixes but the problem persists.  Will try installing 
> Firefox to see if it is an IE specific problem.
> 
> Any other tips appreciated.

http://www.mepis.org/node/1462
From joegill at removethis  Sun Mar  5 18:50:30 2006
From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill)
Date: Sun Mar  5 18:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Narrowed down part of the problem
References: <duf5p3$nkv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duftl3$587$1@news.spamcop.net>


"dwåcôn" <six.million@dollar.man> wrote in message 
news:duf5p3$nkv$1@news.spamcop.net...
> It seems that launching IE6 starts the six-second screen flashing.  I ran 
> the latest Microsoft hotfixes but the problem persists.  Will try 
> installing Firefox to see if it is an IE specific problem.
>
> Any other tips appreciated.
>

I run 2003 Server on my laptop!. It is a development type laptop...
It sounds..from a distance, that the video drivers may not be up to date for 
your level of 2003 Server..
But.. you may not find updated video drivers from many vendors for 2003 
Server. I use the ones for XP for my Dell and they work GREAT!

As for IE, just make sure Windows Maint is up to date.. I am currently 
running with everything except the Service Pack 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar  5 16:50:00 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Sun Mar  5 19:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61...
> No way it was me! It was "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com>!
>
>> Very OT
>
> In .geeks?  No, pretty apropos, I should think.
>
> So, you've looked at the drives in the Device Manager.  Have you looked at
> them with the Storage Manager ("Disk Management")?  They may be there and
> ready to use - but not have an assigned drive letter.

**
If it is there but without an assigned letter, how do I get a letter 
assigned? I think there is a place where *listed* drives can be reassigned, 
but if it is not listed??

I looked at the list of drives for removable media and there are actually 
four camera card readers (drive letters f,g,h,i) and only f was listed to 
change the drive letter.

Remember this is a hard drive enclosure on a USB port that I am trying to 
read.

Most of  the manager window help sounds like working on an interior drive 
after it HAS been accessed - this external drive has not been accessed - 
seems that the drivers are what have been installed but nothing else.

BTW I took the enclosure back to he store and talked to their service 
department and they could not get it to work (tried another enclosure - same 
result.) They had no idea why (seems they had not had this happen before.
In addition, I had previously tried another drive - didn't work, sent it 
back - replacement did not work either.

Also tried al of the above enclosures on another winxp computer - did not 
work there either.

The only thing that the techs could think of is that the drive is an ATA 
drive formatted for win98se and the computer is a winxp with a different 
file format on its hard drive - maybe winxp can only read drives formatted 
for the 'file format' that xp uses (NTFS, FAT, or FAT32.) I think win98se 
uses FAT or  FAT32, I do not know which xp uses - is this a possibility 
(expecting the hd to be something other than FATx??
***


From joegill at removethis  Sun Mar  5 21:09:15 2006
From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill)
Date: Sun Mar  5 21:10:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Narrowed down part of the problem
References: <duf5p3$nkv$1@news.spamcop.net> <duftl3$587$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DC9178BA1FTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <dug5k9$b40$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns977DC9178BA1FTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61...
> No way it was me! It was "Joe Gill" <joegill@removethis@prodigy.net>!
>
>> I am currently running with everything except the Service Pack
>
> On your laptop.  Crazy, man.  So, the five minute boots don't bug you?
> Obviously you're not running much in the way of software or you'd have the
> SP on there - it's required to run a lot of things (even though it's
> largely useless).  Still...  NT or even 2000 Server I can see.  But 2003?
> Dang.  Bloated and slow and bleh.  Hmm.  Yeah.  Well, it might be required
> for running Oracle or other things.  Still, bleh.  And dang.

No five minute boots here.. even when attaching to my domain.!!!

When attaching to my domain, bring DB2 enterprise server up, bring a couple 
of desktop 'indexers' up, etc, no way does it take 5 minutes normally. The 
only variable is the attachment to the domain server time

When not connected to the lan, it may under 3 minutes....

I have a full compliment of software on it, most of it Microsoft... 
development software too. and standard desktop tools.... 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar  5 19:38:12 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Sun Mar  5 22:40:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61...
> No way it was me! It was "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com>!
>
>> If it is there but without an assigned letter, how do I get a letter
>> assigned? I think there is a place where *listed* drives can be
>> reassigned, but if it is not listed??
>
> In the storage manager, it would be there as a disk - but it wouldn't be
> assigned anything.  I'm not taling about reassigning - that's totally
> different.  Right click on your computer.  Select Manage.  Click on "Disk
> Management".  Right click on the drive (if it shows up!) and assign a
> letter.
>
> Bearing in mind that that would be in bottom pane - you may have to scroll
> down to your drive.  And, hey, if the drive shows up in the Device Manager
> it had better be in the Storage Manager!
>
>
>> Most of  the manager window help sounds like working on an interior
>> drive after it HAS been accessed - this external drive has not been
>> accessed - seems that the drivers are what have been installed but
>> nothing else.
>
> Huh.  I dunno.  I've had disks in the Storage Manager that had nothing - 
> no
> drives, no letters, no data.  But that could just be me :)
>

**
There is the problem - my enclosure hd did not show up in the explorer so 
there was nothing to click on.

Since most of the 'removable media' drives (built in) did not show up in the 
manager, there was nothing to click on there. - how to access those?

For the moment, I have returned the enclosure to the store so cannot try 
anything here - until I get something REAL solid, then I will purchase the 
enclosure again to try those ideas (there was a short time window during 
which I could return the enclosure.)
***

>
>> The only thing that the techs could think of
>
> Time to get new techs :)  Hey, you send me the drive and I can try and 
> work
> something out for you.  But, like, no guarantees, eh?
>
> cheers!
> c 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar  5 19:47:48 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Sun Mar  5 22:50:06 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] peer to peer lan
Message-ID: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net>

Looking for a link to the diagram for connecting two computers together as a 
peer to peer LAN using a crossover cat5 cable to the Ethernet ports.

Also need the rest of the information about actually making the two 
computers 'talk' to each other.

Seems that I saw this may years ago when the LANS first started (prior to 
the www.)

I want to use this to copy files from one computer to another without 
burning cds or physically moving the hard drive.

Thanks for the help 


From devnull at spamcop.net  Sun Mar  5 23:33:15 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Sun Mar  5 23:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>

might try http://s11.yousendit.com/

"anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net...
| Looking for a link to the diagram for connecting two computers together as
a
| peer to peer LAN using a crossover cat5 cable to the Ethernet ports.
|
| Also need the rest of the information about actually making the two
| computers 'talk' to each other.
|
| Seems that I saw this may years ago when the LANS first started (prior to
| the www.)
|
| I want to use this to copy files from one computer to another without
| burning cds or physically moving the hard drive.
|
| Thanks for the help
|
|


From Unknown.User at Invalid.Domain  Sun Mar  5 23:41:24 2006
From: Unknown.User at Invalid.Domain (Jan M. Nelken)
Date: Sun Mar  5 23:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
In-Reply-To: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dugehv$g7t$1@news.spamcop.net>

anon wrote:
> Looking for a link to the diagram for connecting two computers together as a 
> peer to peer LAN using a crossover cat5 cable to the Ethernet ports.
> 
> Also need the rest of the information about actually making the two 
> computers 'talk' to each other.
> 
> Seems that I saw this may years ago when the LANS first started (prior to 
> the www.)
> 
> I want to use this to copy files from one computer to another without 
> burning cds or physically moving the hard drive.
> 
> Thanks for the help 
> 
> 

You want a diagram to connect two computers via crossover cable?????


Hmmm, here it is:

+------------+                          +------------+
|            |                          |            |
| Computer A |=====cross-over cable=====| Computer B |
|            |                          |            |
+------------+                          +------------+


What you also need to do is set up IP addresses on *both* computers - since most 
likely you do not have DHCP server running on either of them. Use one of the 
non-routable ranges - for example set computer A to 192.168.1.1 and computer B 
to 192.168.1.2.

You will be able to use TCP/IP to send/receive files using IP addresses - if you 
have FTP server on one of them.

If not - which is most likely what you are asking for - since yu are asking for 
peer to peer connection - you may use NetBios over TCP/IP by issuing on Computer A:

net use * \\192.168.1.2\C$

x$ shares are administrative type shares which require Administrator priveldge 
to use them; otherwise you have to create shares for relevant drives or directories.

If you don't like using IP addresses - you may also edit hosts file for aliases.

Yell if you need more detailed help.

Jan M. Nelken
From jg at coks.net  Sun Mar  5 20:58:08 2006
From: jg at coks.net (jg)
Date: Mon Mar  6 00:00:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
In-Reply-To: <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dugfbb$gjr$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 3/5/2006 8:33 PM Frog Prince scribbled:

> might try http://s11.yousendit.com/
> 
no thanks - place has odors...
From user at domain.invalid  Mon Mar  6 08:11:56 2006
From: user at domain.invalid (User)
Date: Mon Mar  6 09:15:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Not Listed In bl.spamcop.net ??!!
In-Reply-To: <du7a57$72e$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <du791s$6e2$1@news.spamcop.net> <du7a57$72e$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duhfv8$5k6$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 02.03.2006 11:31, Mike Easter wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> You are asking /us/ how to whitelist an IP on your server that you
> haven't named its software?  Hmmm.
> 
> My free client side spamfilter SpamPal can whitelist an IP.  If you are
> running a server you should know what its software is and how to
> configure it.

I know my server, software and how to configure it ...

Yes, I forgot to list it.

FreeBSD, Apache, sendmail.

The problem was solved on the other end, thanks.

However, white_listing an IP on the server won't have any effect on
being trapped by bl.spamcop as far as I know.
From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar  6 11:59:14 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar  6 12:00:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dugfbb$gjr$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duhppv$b66$1@news.spamcop.net>


"jg" <jg@coks.net> wrote in message news:dugfbb$gjr$1@news.spamcop.net...
| On 3/5/2006 8:33 PM Frog Prince scribbled:
|
| > might try http://s11.yousendit.com/
| >
| no thanks - place has odors...

what does that mean?


From jg at coks.net  Mon Mar  6 10:02:37 2006
From: jg at coks.net (jg)
Date: Mon Mar  6 13:00:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
In-Reply-To: <duhppv$b66$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dugfbb$gjr$1@news.spamcop.net> <duhppv$b66$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duhta9$edq$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 3/6/2006 8:59 AM Frog Prince scribbled:

> "jg" <jg@coks.net> wrote in message news:dugfbb$gjr$1@news.spamcop.net...
> | On 3/5/2006 8:33 PM Frog Prince scribbled:
> |
> | > might try http://s11.yousendit.com/
> | >
> | no thanks - place has odors...
> 
> what does that mean?
> 
>

Per Siteadvisor,

> This site appears to have a business relationship with Zango, a known provider of adware, 
spyware or other unwanted programs. Use caution before downloading from
this site.

Actually, it just warns to use caution so I may have jumped the gun here...
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  6 10:00:24 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Mon Mar  6 13:05:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <dugehv$g7t$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duhtbt$efe$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Jan M. Nelken" <Unknown.User@Invalid.Domain> wrote in message 
news:dugehv$g7t$1@news.spamcop.net...
> anon wrote:
>> Looking for a link to the diagram for connecting two computers together 
>> as a peer to peer LAN using a crossover cat5 cable to the Ethernet ports.
>>
>> Also need the rest of the information about actually making the two 
>> computers 'talk' to each other.
>>
>> Seems that I saw this may years ago when the LANS first started (prior to 
>> the www.)
>>
>> I want to use this to copy files from one computer to another without 
>> burning cds or physically moving the hard drive.
>>
>> Thanks for the help
>
> You want a diagram to connect two computers via crossover cable?????
>
>
> Hmmm, here it is:
>
> +------------+                          +------------+
> |            |                          |            |
> | Computer A |=====cross-over cable=====| Computer B |
> |            |                          |            |
> +------------+                          +------------+
>
>
> What you also need to do is set up IP addresses on *both* computers - 
> since most likely you do not have DHCP server running on either of them. 
> Use one of the non-routable ranges - for example set computer A to 
> 192.168.1.1 and computer B to 192.168.1.2.
>
> You will be able to use TCP/IP to send/receive files using IP addresses - 
> if you have FTP server on one of them.
>
> If not - which is most likely what you are asking for - since yu are 
> asking for peer to peer connection - you may use NetBios over TCP/IP by 
> issuing on Computer A:
>
> net use * \\192.168.1.2\C$
>
> x$ shares are administrative type shares which require Administrator 
> priveldge to use them; otherwise you have to create shares for relevant 
> drives or directories.
>
> If you don't like using IP addresses - you may also edit hosts file for 
> aliases.
>
> Yell if you need more detailed help.
>

**
I thought that the 'wizard' would help with the setup routine (looks like it 
helps assign names to the computer and LAN) but I wonder whether running 
this setup will mess up the settings for my DSL connection. This peer to 
peer is only going to be used ONCE then disconnected forever and my 
connection to the WWW reconnected.

Same question for your suggestions (I really do not want to mess with IP 
addresses) it looks like the wizard sets up aliases.
**

> Jan M. Nelken 


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Mon Mar  6 21:18:10 2006
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Mon Mar  6 15:20:06 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Narrowed down part of the problem
References: <duf5p3$nkv$1@news.spamcop.net> <duftl3$587$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DC9178BA1FTheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug5k9$b40$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977E4FC5AD057TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <slrne0p682.d7c.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:49:50 +0000 (UTC), Charles coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in 
<Xns977E4FC5AD057TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>:

>> When not connected to the lan, it may under 3 minutes....
>
> Ooh.  -Only- 3 minutes!  LOL.  You know the old Jobs deal don't you - the 
> one about saving a life???

LOL :)

My non-windows server that does http, smtp, dns, nfs and hylafax boots 
in about 40 seconds. And it's only an old P-II/266 with 128 MB of RAM.

-- 
Steve

The First Commandment for Technicians:
    Beware the lightening that lurketh in the undischarged
    capacitor, lest it cause thee to bounce upon thy buttocks
    in a most untechnician-like manner.
From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar  6 16:52:31 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar  6 17:00:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dugfbb$gjr$1@news.spamcop.net> <duhppv$b66$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duhta9$edq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duib6m$n2r$1@news.spamcop.net>


"jg" <jg@coks.net>

| > | > might try http://s11.yousendit.com/
| > | >
| > | no thanks - place has odors...
| >
| > what does that mean?
| >
| >
|
| Per Siteadvisor,
|
| > This site appears to have a business relationship with Zango, a known
provider of adware,
| spyware or other unwanted programs. Use caution before downloading from
| this site.
|
| Actually, it just warns to use caution so I may have jumped the gun
here...

I've used it for a year or so and have never had any problems. I use a
firewall, AV and several spyware programs.  I've had several instance were
I've run the security stuff before and after a visit to/from the site and
have never had to delete anything from my HDD.


From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar  6 23:20:24 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar  6 18:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>


"anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> There is the problem - my enclosure hd did not show up in the explorer so 
> there was nothing to click on.
>

At the risk of having missed something earlier in the thread, it sounds to 
me like the drive hasn't actually yet been partitioned and formatted - until 
it's been partitioned and formatted, there won't be anything to see in 
Explorer. Did you partition it and format it when you got it home from the 
shop? They usually come with instructions (when supplied in retail packages) 
relating to how to make them usable. The don't usually come pre-partitioned 
and formatted, as they don't know what system you are going to be using. 

From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar  6 16:04:54 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Mon Mar  6 19:05:15 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
> news:dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>> There is the problem - my enclosure hd did not show up in the explorer so 
>> there was nothing to click on.
>>
>
> At the risk of having missed something earlier in the thread, it sounds to 
> me like the drive hasn't actually yet been partitioned and formatted - 
> until it's been partitioned and formatted, there won't be anything to see 
> in Explorer. Did you partition it and format it when you got it home from 
> the shop? They usually come with instructions (when supplied in retail 
> packages) relating to how to make them usable. The don't usually come 
> pre-partitioned and formatted, as they don't know what system you are 
> going to be using.

**
Actually, the drive was temporarily removed from an actively running win98se 
computer.

AFAIK the drive satisfied all the requirements required for it to be read by 
another computer - in fact, I had installed it as a slave in another 
computer and it WAS readable. Reset the jumpers and it booted to win 98se.

All the suggestions in this thread seem to come down to the conclusion that 
the drive needs to be reformatted by the winxp computer to be read - that is 
counterproductive as the reason for wanting to read it in the first place is 
that I want to copy files from it to the winxp computer (reformatting 
obviously is not the answer.) 


From six.million at dollar.man  Mon Mar  6 23:28:11 2006
From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn)
Date: Mon Mar  6 23:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Narrowed down part of the problem
References: <duf5p3$nkv$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pan.2006.03.05.19.07.14.133568@suespammers.org>
	<Xns977DB0BDFFC31TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <duj24p$588$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Charles" <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns977DB0BDFFC31TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61...
> No way it was me! It was Ken <pantheus@suespammers.org>!
>> On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:05:39 -0500, dwåcôn wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that launching IE6 starts the six-second screen flashing.  I
>>> ran the latest Microsoft hotfixes but the problem persists.  Will try
>>> installing Firefox to see if it is an IE specific problem.
>>>
>>> Any other tips appreciated.
>>
>> http://www.mepis.org/node/1462
>
> Har-d-har.  Anyway, hey D!  What the heck are you doing running server
> software on your computer?  From the way you talk about your problems, 
> they
> only happen right after a boot.  Well...  Servers should just run.  Yeah, 
> I
> rebooted mine just, um, er.  Well.  Recentlyish.  Within the last month, 
> at
> least.  But a boot and a shutdown take FOREVER.  It's certainly not
> something that I would impose on anyone!


I occasionally test software so a server OS allowed me to run simulations --  
and I'm too lazy to clear off space on the desk for the XP box, so I 
understand that I could just save myself problems by putting the server in 
the closet and wait for the next release of whatever to play around with... 
but just searching for some ideas to minimize the frustration.



From jg at coks.net  Mon Mar  6 21:25:35 2006
From: jg at coks.net (jg)
Date: Tue Mar  7 00:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
In-Reply-To: <duib6m$n2r$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dugfbb$gjr$1@news.spamcop.net> <duhppv$b66$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duhta9$edq$1@news.spamcop.net> <duib6m$n2r$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duj5aq$6u6$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 3/6/2006 1:52 PM Frog Prince scribbled:

> "jg" <jg@coks.net>
> 
> | > | > might try http://s11.yousendit.com/
> | > | >
> | > | no thanks - place has odors...
> | >
> | > what does that mean?
> | >
> | >
> |
> | Per Siteadvisor,
> |
> | > This site appears to have a business relationship with Zango, a known
> provider of adware,
> | spyware or other unwanted programs. Use caution before downloading from
> | this site.
> |
> | Actually, it just warns to use caution so I may have jumped the gun
> here...
> 
> I've used it for a year or so and have never had any problems. I use a
> firewall, AV and several spyware programs.  I've had several instance were
> I've run the security stuff before and after a visit to/from the site and
> have never had to delete anything from my HDD.
> 
> 
I think the warning flashed by the utility was meant for users less
savvy, myself, in weaker moments, included.
I've also been lurking around NANAE too much - gives one a twitch at
times....
From jg at coks.net  Mon Mar  6 21:55:57 2006
From: jg at coks.net (jg)
Date: Tue Mar  7 00:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
In-Reply-To: <duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duj73o$862$1@news.spamcop.net>

On 3/6/2006 4:04 PM anon scribbled:

> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net...
>> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>> There is the problem - my enclosure hd did not show up in the explorer so 
>>> there was nothing to click on.
>>>
>> At the risk of having missed something earlier in the thread, it sounds to 
>> me like the drive hasn't actually yet been partitioned and formatted - 
>> until it's been partitioned and formatted, there won't be anything to see 
>> in Explorer. Did you partition it and format it when you got it home from 
>> the shop? They usually come with instructions (when supplied in retail 
>> packages) relating to how to make them usable. The don't usually come 
>> pre-partitioned and formatted, as they don't know what system you are 
>> going to be using.
> 
> **
> Actually, the drive was temporarily removed from an actively running win98se 
> computer.
> 
> AFAIK the drive satisfied all the requirements required for it to be read by 
> another computer - in fact, I had installed it as a slave in another 
> computer and it WAS readable. Reset the jumpers and it booted to win 98se.
> 
> All the suggestions in this thread seem to come down to the conclusion that 
> the drive needs to be reformatted by the winxp computer to be read - that is 
> counterproductive as the reason for wanting to read it in the first place is 
> that I want to copy files from it to the winxp computer (reformatting 
> obviously is not the answer.) 
> 
> 
I was curious about the advice to reformat.  But whats keeping you from
just going to where the HD works and copy the data to a floppy or CD?
The HD problem doesn't sound like its worth the trouble - could be
anywhere in this mix -fat vs. ntfs, bios, HD manufacturer/hardware
failure, XP -
sheesh...
p.s. by /enclosure/ do you mean an internal drive?
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Mon Mar  6 22:16:52 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Tue Mar  7 01:20:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-B4AF5B.22165106032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "Frog Prince" <devnull@spamcop.net> wrote:

> might try http://s11.yousendit.com/

Hamachi (http://www.hamachi.cc/) is similar, but a bit more direct, and 
could be very useful.

It's a one-click-VPN service. Other than the quick data exchange that 
initiates the connection, no data goes through the Hamachi systems. If 
you're both on a LAN, things go at LAN speed.

It's fantastic for playing old LAN-only computer games that have no 
online playing mode. My buddy has Hamachi on his computer, I have it on 
mine, and when we're both logged on and in the same "network", it treats 
us like we're on the same LAN. NAT doesn't give us any problems either. 
Wonderful stuff.

Not sure if that'd help, but give it a shot.

If anon is looking for the actual wiring diagram to make his own 
ethernet cables, then http://i2.tinypic.com/qxqolf.gif has the diagram 
to make a crossover cable.

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 11:19:59 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 14:25:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dukmd2$3nc$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net...
> Greetings all,
>
> I'm looking for two geeky gadgets, but am curious if anyone has any
> hands-on experience.
>
> 1. USB fingerprint reader. Should be WinXP compatible, and work with
> Firefox. It should have software necessary to store (and backup)
> usernames and passwords for Windows, various websites, etc. It'd be
> preferably if, when prompted by the website for the login/pass, it'd
> prompt me for my fingerprint. When it receives the fingerprint, it
> should automatically fill in the necessary forms in the browser. Any
> suggestions?
>
> 2. Wireless network camera. Should be outdoor-capable, and preferably
> able to connect to an 802.11g network. Many I've seen connect to "b"
> networks with WEP encryption, but I use "g" with WPA/WPA2. I'd prefer to
> use WPA over WEP for obvious reasons. Pan-and-tilt and zoom would be
> nice, as would audio, but isn't necessary.
>

**
My son, who developed a web site for an apartment complex that included a 
webcam that the viewer could control sent me the following information and 
link.

He said that the company has both wired and wireless cameras.

Let me know whether this will work and also if you need any additional 
information.

http://www.nuspectra.com/detail.aspx?ID=1760

The company nuspectra.com is a great resource for web cams and also have
excellent customer service.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

> Just some geeky gadgets I'm thinking of putting on my wish list, but
> nothing serious for now.
>
> Muchos thanks!
>
> -- 
> Pete Stephenson
> HeyPete.com 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 11:26:41 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 14:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <duj73o$862$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dukmpj$42f$1@news.spamcop.net>


"jg" <jg@coks.net> wrote in message news:duj73o$862$1@news.spamcop.net...
> On 3/6/2006 4:04 PM anon scribbled:
>
>> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>>> There is the problem - my enclosure hd did not show up in the explorer 
>>>> so
>>>> there was nothing to click on.
>>>>
>>> At the risk of having missed something earlier in the thread, it sounds 
>>> to
>>> me like the drive hasn't actually yet been partitioned and formatted -
>>> until it's been partitioned and formatted, there won't be anything to 
>>> see
>>> in Explorer. Did you partition it and format it when you got it home 
>>> from
>>> the shop? They usually come with instructions (when supplied in retail
>>> packages) relating to how to make them usable. The don't usually come
>>> pre-partitioned and formatted, as they don't know what system you are
>>> going to be using.
>>
>> **
>> Actually, the drive was temporarily removed from an actively running 
>> win98se
>> computer.
>>
>> AFAIK the drive satisfied all the requirements required for it to be read 
>> by
>> another computer - in fact, I had installed it as a slave in another
>> computer and it WAS readable. Reset the jumpers and it booted to win 
>> 98se.
>>
>> All the suggestions in this thread seem to come down to the conclusion 
>> that
>> the drive needs to be reformatted by the winxp computer to be read - that 
>> is
>> counterproductive as the reason for wanting to read it in the first place 
>> is
>> that I want to copy files from it to the winxp computer (reformatting
>> obviously is not the answer.)
>>
>>
> I was curious about the advice to reformat.  But whats keeping you from
> just going to where the HD works and copy the data to a floppy or CD?
> The HD problem doesn't sound like its worth the trouble - could be
> anywhere in this mix -fat vs. ntfs, bios, HD manufacturer/hardware
> failure, XP -
> sheesh...

**
Actually, I have thousands of files (many,many CDs) that I want to transfer.

I have already copied from some of the CDs, but thought that direct transfer 
would be faster and easier (???) than the CDs. Little did I know how hard it 
would be to implement.
**

> p.s. by /enclosure/ do you mean an internal drive?

**
No that is an external drive connected via a USB cable.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 11:31:54 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 14:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: peer to peer lan
References: <dugbd8$eb9$1@news.spamcop.net> <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-B4AF5B.22165106032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dukn3c$4cp$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-B4AF5B.22165106032006@news.cesmail.net...
> In article <duge4j$frs$1@news.spamcop.net>,
> "Frog Prince" <devnull@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> might try http://s11.yousendit.com/
>
> Hamachi (http://www.hamachi.cc/) is similar, but a bit more direct, and
> could be very useful.
>
> It's a one-click-VPN service. Other than the quick data exchange that
> initiates the connection, no data goes through the Hamachi systems. If
> you're both on a LAN, things go at LAN speed.
>
> It's fantastic for playing old LAN-only computer games that have no
> online playing mode. My buddy has Hamachi on his computer, I have it on
> mine, and when we're both logged on and in the same "network", it treats
> us like we're on the same LAN. NAT doesn't give us any problems either.
> Wonderful stuff.
>
> Not sure if that'd help, but give it a shot.
>
> If anon is looking for the actual wiring diagram to make his own
> ethernet cables, then http://i2.tinypic.com/qxqolf.gif has the diagram
> to make a crossover cable.

**
No just want to use the commercial cables.

Other posters have given me the diagrams I needed.

Mostly just the memory jogger (saw the diagram years ago when I did not need 
the information.)

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

>
> -- 
> Pete Stephenson
> HeyPete.com 


From nobody at spamcop.net  Tue Mar  7 14:49:10 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Tue Mar  7 14:50:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <duj73o$862$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dukmpj$42f$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duko3m$50a$1@news.spamcop.net>



anon wrote:
> Actually, I have thousands of files (many,many CDs) that I want to
> transfer.
>

Got a DVD burner?


From blacklist-me at davjam.org  Tue Mar  7 20:06:47 2006
From: blacklist-me at davjam.org (David Bolt)
Date: Tue Mar  7 15:10:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
 <Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
 <dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
 <Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
 <dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
 <duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <KJKwQfzXfeDEFwzF@dev.null.davjam.org>

On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, anon <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote:-

>Actually, the drive was temporarily removed from an actively running win98se
>computer.
>
>AFAIK the drive satisfied all the requirements required for it to be read by
>another computer - in fact, I had installed it as a slave in another
>computer and it WAS readable. Reset the jumpers and it booted to win 98se.

Is there any reason that you can't do this with the WinXP computer? If
there isn't, and assuming the WinXP system isn't one of those SATA-only
systems[0], it'll be a lot quicker than using an external USB enclosure.

While it's not as nice as just plugging in and copying, it's not going
to be that much slower. The main delay is probably going to be in
shutting down and restarting after inserting and removing the drive. The
actual transfers should be as fast, if not faster than using a USB
connection.

>All the suggestions in this thread seem to come down to the conclusion that
>the drive needs to be reformatted by the winxp computer to be read - that is
>counterproductive as the reason for wanting to read it in the first place is
>that I want to copy files from it to the winxp computer (reformatting
>obviously is not the answer.)

I've yet to have to reformat a drive to make WinXP read from it, so
can't see why you'd need to.


[0] And I _think_ I've only ever seen one of those. That was a Dell
system that my brother was stupid enough to buy, although I couldn't say
which one, that came with a SATA HD and IDE DVDRW. When I tried top get
it to see a second IDE HD, it failed completely. Altering the jumper
settings didn't make any difference, and neither did any of the BIOS
settings. The drive itself is perfectly okay, having tested it on
another IDE-only system.

Regards,
  David Bolt

-- 
Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 50 Mnodes/s: http://www.distributed.net/
AMD1800 1Gb WinXP/SUSE 9.3  | AMD2400 256Mb SuSE 9.0  | A3010 4Mb RISCOS 3.11
AMD2400(32) 768Mb SUSE 10.0 | RPC600 129Mb RISCOS 3.6 | Falcon 14Mb TOS 4.02
AMD2600(64) 512Mb SUSE 10.0 | A4000 4Mb RISCOS 3.11   | STE 4Mb TOS 1.62
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 12:20:33 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 15:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <duj73o$862$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dukmpj$42f$1@news.spamcop.net> <duko3m$50a$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dukpuj$65k$1@news.spamcop.net>


"indigo" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:duko3m$50a$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
>
> anon wrote:
>> Actually, I have thousands of files (many,many CDs) that I want to
>> transfer.
>>
>
> Got a DVD burner?
>

**
Not on that computer.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

> 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 12:24:18 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 15:25:06 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <KJKwQfzXfeDEFwzF@dev.null.davjam.org>
Message-ID: <dukq5l$67b$1@news.spamcop.net>


"David Bolt" <blacklist-me@davjam.org> wrote in message 
news:KJKwQfzXfeDEFwzF@dev.null.davjam.org...
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, anon <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote:-
>
>>Actually, the drive was temporarily removed from an actively running 
>>win98se
>>computer.
>>
>>AFAIK the drive satisfied all the requirements required for it to be read 
>>by
>>another computer - in fact, I had installed it as a slave in another
>>computer and it WAS readable. Reset the jumpers and it booted to win 98se.
>
> Is there any reason that you can't do this with the WinXP computer? If
> there isn't, and assuming the WinXP system isn't one of those SATA-only
> systems[0], it'll be a lot quicker than using an external USB enclosure.
>

**
That is one of the alternatives - actually installing the w98se drive as a 
slave and copying the files.

Thought I would try other methods first. Instead of opening the wxp computer 
and installing the HD.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

> While it's not as nice as just plugging in and copying, it's not going
> to be that much slower. The main delay is probably going to be in
> shutting down and restarting after inserting and removing the drive. The
> actual transfers should be as fast, if not faster than using a USB
> connection.
>
>>All the suggestions in this thread seem to come down to the conclusion 
>>that
>>the drive needs to be reformatted by the winxp computer to be read - that 
>>is
>>counterproductive as the reason for wanting to read it in the first place 
>>is
>>that I want to copy files from it to the winxp computer (reformatting
>>obviously is not the answer.)
>
> I've yet to have to reformat a drive to make WinXP read from it, so
> can't see why you'd need to.
>
>
> [0] And I _think_ I've only ever seen one of those. That was a Dell
> system that my brother was stupid enough to buy, although I couldn't say
> which one, that came with a SATA HD and IDE DVDRW. When I tried top get
> it to see a second IDE HD, it failed completely. Altering the jumper
> settings didn't make any difference, and neither did any of the BIOS
> settings. The drive itself is perfectly okay, having tested it on
> another IDE-only system.
>
> Regards,
>  David Bolt
>
> -- 
> Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 50 Mnodes/s: 
> http://www.distributed.net/
> AMD1800 1Gb WinXP/SUSE 9.3  | AMD2400 256Mb SuSE 9.0  | A3010 4Mb RISCOS 
> 3.11
> AMD2400(32) 768Mb SUSE 10.0 | RPC600 129Mb RISCOS 3.6 | Falcon 14Mb TOS 
> 4.02
> AMD2600(64) 512Mb SUSE 10.0 | A4000 4Mb RISCOS 3.11   | STE 4Mb TOS 1.62 


From nobody at spamcop.net  Tue Mar  7 15:39:19 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Tue Mar  7 15:40:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <duj73o$862$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dukmpj$42f$1@news.spamcop.net> <duko3m$50a$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dukpuj$65k$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dukr1o$6o8$1@news.spamcop.net>



anon wrote:
> "indigo" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:duko3m$50a$1@news.spamcop.net...
> >
> >
> > anon wrote:
> >> Actually, I have thousands of files (many,many CDs) that I want to
> >> transfer.
> >>
> >
> > Got a DVD burner?
> >
>
> **
> Not on that computer.

Sorry, I meant "external" DVD unit (like the one I have ;-)


From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar  7 23:24:00 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Tue Mar  7 18:30:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>


"anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
>> news:dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net...

>
> **
> Actually, the drive was temporarily removed from an actively running 
> win98se computer.
>
> AFAIK the drive satisfied all the requirements required for it to be read 
> by another computer - in fact, I had installed it as a slave in another 
> computer and it WAS readable. Reset the jumpers and it booted to win 98se.
>
> All the suggestions in this thread seem to come down to the conclusion 
> that the drive needs to be reformatted by the winxp computer to be read - 
> that is counterproductive as the reason for wanting to read it in the 
> first place is that I want to copy files from it to the winxp computer 
> (reformatting obviously is not the answer.)

If it's already formatted and it's a M$ format, then it should be readable 
from XP so I don't know what the problem could be in this instance. Have you 
tried using a Knoppix bootable CD on the host system and using that to copy 
the files?

Or maybe it's something to do with the interface?!? 

From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 17:58:55 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 21:00:09 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <duj73o$862$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dukmpj$42f$1@news.spamcop.net> <duko3m$50a$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dukpuj$65k$1@news.spamcop.net> <dukr1o$6o8$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duldp2$hkt$1@news.spamcop.net>


"indigo" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:dukr1o$6o8$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
>
> anon wrote:
>> "indigo" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>> news:duko3m$50a$1@news.spamcop.net...
>> >
>> >
>> > anon wrote:
>> >> Actually, I have thousands of files (many,many CDs) that I want to
>> >> transfer.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Got a DVD burner?
>> >
>>
>> **
>> Not on that computer.
>
> Sorry, I meant "external" DVD unit (like the one I have ;-)
>

***
Unfortunately, still  no.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

> 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 18:03:08 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 21:05:09 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dule0v$huo$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
> news:duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>>
>>> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
>>
>> **
>> Actually, the drive was temporarily removed from an actively running 
>> win98se computer.
>>
>> AFAIK the drive satisfied all the requirements required for it to be read 
>> by another computer - in fact, I had installed it as a slave in another 
>> computer and it WAS readable. Reset the jumpers and it booted to win 
>> 98se.
>>
>> All the suggestions in this thread seem to come down to the conclusion 
>> that the drive needs to be reformatted by the winxp computer to be read - 
>> that is counterproductive as the reason for wanting to read it in the 
>> first place is that I want to copy files from it to the winxp computer 
>> (reformatting obviously is not the answer.)
>
> If it's already formatted and it's a M$ format, then it should be readable 
> from XP so I don't know what the problem could be in this instance. Have 
> you tried using a Knoppix bootable CD on the host system and using that to 
> copy the files?

**
What do you mean by copy files?

What is Knoppix?

Actually I have a complete backup of all files onto CDs (a few months old, 
but no problem updating onto new CDs.)

I was just trying to find the easiest/fastest method of transferring the 
files from one computer to the other.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

>
> Or maybe it's something to do with the interface?!? 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Tue Mar  7 20:05:14 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Tue Mar  7 23:10:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Is there a way of doing it?
References: <du4s7p$llc$1@news.spamcop.net> <du5fuu$3bp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dull5t$mpf$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:du5fuu$3bp$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Bud wrote:
>
>> In OE when I mail my friends and family, I dress it up with
>> stationary, various fonts and so on. I also insert a midi file which
>> plays when the mail is opened.
>
> Ack!!
>
>>  They all seem to enjoy it.
>
> I seriously doubt it.  I more imagine that they know that you enjoy
> putting it together and so they tolerate it for your amusement or
> enjoyment.  Or maybe about one 'kinda' likes it and the vast majority
> don't want to hurt your feelings by telling you that they have no use
> for it.
>
> People are very disinclined to tell someone that something that they put
> some effort into personalizing isn't their own cup of tea.  "I know you
> made that dress, but it is really ugly and I don't even like that style
> or those colors anyway."  Not gonna happen.
>
> They are glad to hear from you and they like what you have to say in the
> content, but in my mind and I don't know these people who are your
> family and not mine, I would imagine that they would almost all rather
> just hear from you.
>
> Why don't you send your next few letters as plaintext, and see how many
> request that you go back to doctoring them up.  Receiving that kind of
> 'stuff' should be an opt-in process, not an opt-out -- because it is a
> social issue and no one is going to opt-out.  Instead they are going to
> feign that they really like it.
>
> But, that's just my opinion -- I'm very 'opinioned' - as if that were
> somehow different from 'opinionated'.
>
>

***
Actually I have the sound turned off all the time except when *I* want to 
listen to something special - then I turn it on to listen then off it goes 
again.

If I got one of those, I would not even be aware that it had 'music'. It may 
well be that a lot of his recipients do the same thing.
-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

> -- 
> Mike Easter
> kibitzer, not SC admin
> 


From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar  8 09:25:56 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Wed Mar  8 04:30:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dule0v$huo$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dum82r$1uo$1@news.spamcop.net>


"anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:dule0v$huo$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>> If it's already formatted and it's a M$ format, then it should be 
>> readable from XP so I don't know what the problem could be in this 
>> instance. Have you tried using a Knoppix bootable CD on the host system 
>> and using that to copy the files?
>
> **
> What do you mean by copy files?

I thought you were trying to copy files to another PC...??

>
> What is Knoppix?

Knoppix is a version of Linux (which will read all your windows files too 
enabling you to do the file operations you desire) which is available as a 
bootable CD (the ISO is downloadable to burn yourself) and runs from the CD 
without needing to be actually installed on the PC.

>
> Actually I have a complete backup of all files onto CDs (a few months old, 
> but no problem updating onto new CDs.)
>
> I was just trying to find the easiest/fastest method of transferring the 
> files from one computer to the other.

From notgiven at nodomain.net  Wed Mar  8 10:11:45 2006
From: notgiven at nodomain.net (C. S.)
Date: Wed Mar  8 10:15:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <lkst02l336uu7hpmr6c3u1k5c8k5hi5607@4ax.com>

Sometime around Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:24:00 -0000, "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk>
deemed it necessary to offer:

> Or maybe it's something to do with the interface?!? 

Exactly what I was leaning towards.

Try a known-working USB cable.
Check the jumpers on the drive; try all valid options. Occasionally a drive will work with
certain hardware -only- with "Cable Select" enabled.
Are the USB port(s) of the system(s) enabled in BIOS? Double-check this.
Is the IDE cable properly connected to the drive? These are sometimes marked for
the opposite of what you'd expect. If possible, flip the cable over at the drive.
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar  8 09:42:05 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Wed Mar  8 12:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dule0v$huo$1@news.spamcop.net> <dum82r$1uo$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dun51g$kde$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:dum82r$1uo$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
> news:dule0v$huo$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>>
>>> If it's already formatted and it's a M$ format, then it should be 
>>> readable from XP so I don't know what the problem could be in this 
>>> instance. Have you tried using a Knoppix bootable CD on the host system 
>>> and using that to copy the files?
>>
>> **
>> What do you mean by copy files?
>
> I thought you were trying to copy files to another PC...??
>

***
Correct - I am using Ztreewin program to 'mirror' all the open folders onto 
CDs - this program allows me to copy the files onto multiple CDs.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


>>
>> What is Knoppix?
>
> Knoppix is a version of Linux (which will read all your windows files too 
> enabling you to do the file operations you desire) which is available as a 
> bootable CD (the ISO is downloadable to burn yourself) and runs from the 
> CD without needing to be actually installed on the PC.
>

**
I see -  but what is the advantage of this over other methods of burning 
CDs?
**

>>
>> Actually I have a complete backup of all files onto CDs (a few months 
>> old, but no problem updating onto new CDs.)
>>
>> I was just trying to find the easiest/fastest method of transferring the 
>> files from one computer to the other.
> 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar  8 14:22:18 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Wed Mar  8 17:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<lkst02l336uu7hpmr6c3u1k5c8k5hi5607@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dunlet$ubk$1@news.spamcop.net>


"C. S." <notgiven@nodomain.net> wrote in message 
news:lkst02l336uu7hpmr6c3u1k5c8k5hi5607@4ax.com...
> Sometime around Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:24:00 -0000, "Porpoise" 
> <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk>
> deemed it necessary to offer:
>
>> Or maybe it's something to do with the interface?!?
>
> Exactly what I was leaning towards.
>
> Try a known-working USB cable.

**
Unfortunately, the cable is the small  (camera) type cable  that came with 
he units.
***
> Check the jumpers on the drive; try all valid options. Occasionally a 
> drive will work with
> certain hardware -only- with "Cable Select" enabled.
> Are the USB port(s) of the system(s) enabled in BIOS? Double-check this.
> Is the IDE cable properly connected to the drive? These are sometimes 
> marked for
> the opposite of what you'd expect. If possible, flip the cable over at the 
> drive.

**
Non symmetrical cable connection - so can't flip.

All USB ports are enabled, did try other ports.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Mar  9 01:36:50 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Wed Mar  8 20:40:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dule0v$huo$1@news.spamcop.net> <dum82r$1uo$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dun51g$kde$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duo0rq$56s$1@news.spamcop.net>


"anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:dun51g$kde$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:dum82r$1uo$1@news.spamcop.net...

>>> What is Knoppix?
>>
>> Knoppix is a version of Linux (which will read all your windows files too 
>> enabling you to do the file operations you desire) which is available as 
>> a bootable CD (the ISO is downloadable to burn yourself) and runs from 
>> the CD without needing to be actually installed on the PC.
>>
>
> **
> I see -  but what is the advantage of this over other methods of burning 
> CDs?
> **

Knoppix has nothing to do with burning CDs, it is an operating system 
(Linux) which you can run from CD (so you don't have to install it onto the 
system HDD). It would enable you to read/write/copy/move whatever files you 
like.

(you would have to download the ISO image and burn it to CD yourself first 
though - in order to create the CD from which to run it).

http://www.knoppix.org

From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Wed Mar  8 19:52:13 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Wed Mar  8 22:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: can't read hd in enclosure
References: <dudcsu$rt1$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977D460C5F568TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dug0vu$7b4$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns977DD185163A0TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dugarc$dup$1@news.spamcop.net> <duig6k$q9m$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duiinc$rir$1@news.spamcop.net> <dul4pt$cfc$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dule0v$huo$1@news.spamcop.net> <dum82r$1uo$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dun51g$kde$1@news.spamcop.net> <duo0rq$56s$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duo8pg$ait$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:duo0rq$56s$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
> news:dun51g$kde$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>> "Porpoise" <porpoise1954@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:dum82r$1uo$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
>>>> What is Knoppix?
>>>
>>> Knoppix is a version of Linux (which will read all your windows files 
>>> too enabling you to do the file operations you desire) which is 
>>> available as a bootable CD (the ISO is downloadable to burn yourself) 
>>> and runs from the CD without needing to be actually installed on the PC.
>>>
>>
>> **
>> I see -  but what is the advantage of this over other methods of burning 
>> CDs?
>> **
>
> Knoppix has nothing to do with burning CDs, it is an operating system 
> (Linux) which you can run from CD (so you don't have to install it onto 
> the system HDD). It would enable you to read/write/copy/move whatever 
> files you like.
>
> (you would have to download the ISO image and burn it to CD yourself first 
> though - in order to create the CD from which to run it).
>
> http://www.knoppix.org
>

**
If this runs from a CD - how does my DVD/CV burner operate?

It looks like I have to use a separate program (at least that is the way the 
winxp works with my burner) to 'accumulate' the group of files then burn the 
batch to the DVD/CD.

Anyway, linux always sounded like the answer to M$ - but I'm still stuck 
with win(xx.)

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From borgholio at storymind.com  Thu Mar  9 11:45:09 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Thu Mar  9 14:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Battery question.
Message-ID: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net>

I've been using my Ansmann Energy 8 charger for awhile and it's working 
great.  I'm stocking up on new rechargable batteries for emergencies, but I 
have a question.  I know that battery capacity is increasing constantly.  AA 
NiMH batteries have upwards of 2500mah capacity...maybe more.  When I look 
at a D-cell NiMH, it has almost the same capacity as a AA does.  What's the 
point of a bigger battery if it has the same capacity?  Shouldn't a D-cell 
have about 4x more juice in it?
From eddie at eddie.web  Thu Mar  9 18:23:13 2006
From: eddie at eddie.web (eddie)
Date: Thu Mar  9 18:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:

> I've been using my Ansmann Energy 8 charger for awhile and it's working 
> great.  I'm stocking up on new rechargable batteries for emergencies, 
> but I have a question.  I know that battery capacity is increasing 
> constantly.  AA NiMH batteries have upwards of 2500mah capacity...maybe 
> more.  When I look at a D-cell NiMH, it has almost the same capacity as 
> a AA does.  What's the point of a bigger battery if it has the same 
> capacity?  Shouldn't a D-cell have about 4x more juice in it?
I had some "C" cells a while ago that were NiCd with the same problem - 
it turns out that the "C" cell simply contained a single NiCd cell in a 
larger container. Yes, it "replaced" a "C" cell, but I thought it was 
false advertising or worse. You may have a similar situation.
From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 09:49:01 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 12:50:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duse53$rmo$2@news.spamcop.net>

eddie wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>> I've been using my Ansmann Energy 8 charger for awhile and it's 
>> working great.  I'm stocking up on new rechargable batteries for 
>> emergencies, but I have a question.  I know that battery capacity is 
>> increasing constantly.  AA NiMH batteries have upwards of 2500mah 
>> capacity...maybe more.  When I look at a D-cell NiMH, it has almost 
>> the same capacity as a AA does.  What's the point of a bigger battery 
>> if it has the same capacity?  Shouldn't a D-cell have about 4x more 
>> juice in it?
> 
> I had some "C" cells a while ago that were NiCd with the same problem - 
> it turns out that the "C" cell simply contained a single NiCd cell in a 
> larger container. Yes, it "replaced" a "C" cell, but I thought it was 
> false advertising or worse. You may have a similar situation.

It's that way with every single large cell battery I've ever had.  The only 
batteries that weigh as much as they should are alkalines.  Maybe I should 
contact the battery manufacturers and see.  I mean given the size of a D 
cell, it should have at least 4x more capacity than a AA.
From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 11:15:10 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 14:15:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net>

eddie wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>> I've been using my Ansmann Energy 8 charger for awhile and it's 
>> working great.  I'm stocking up on new rechargable batteries for 
>> emergencies, but I have a question.  I know that battery capacity is 
>> increasing constantly.  AA NiMH batteries have upwards of 2500mah 
>> capacity...maybe more.  When I look at a D-cell NiMH, it has almost 
>> the same capacity as a AA does.  What's the point of a bigger battery 
>> if it has the same capacity?  Shouldn't a D-cell have about 4x more 
>> juice in it?
> 
> I had some "C" cells a while ago that were NiCd with the same problem - 
> it turns out that the "C" cell simply contained a single NiCd cell in a 
> larger container. Yes, it "replaced" a "C" cell, but I thought it was 
> false advertising or worse. You may have a similar situation.

The answer I got from Energizer is that the public isn't very interested in 
C and D cell batteries...they mainly want AA and AAA.  Thus, most of the R&D 
is going into AA and AAA.  I'll call Raovac and see if they give me the same 
answer.
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Fri Mar 10 11:55:22 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Fri Mar 10 15:00:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net...
> eddie wrote:
>> Borgholio wrote:
>>
>>> I've been using my Ansmann Energy 8 charger for awhile and it's working 
>>> great.  I'm stocking up on new rechargable batteries for emergencies, 
>>> but I have a question.  I know that battery capacity is increasing 
>>> constantly.  AA NiMH batteries have upwards of 2500mah capacity...maybe 
>>> more.  When I look at a D-cell NiMH, it has almost the same capacity as 
>>> a AA does.  What's the point of a bigger battery if it has the same 
>>> capacity?  Shouldn't a D-cell have about 4x more juice in it?
>>
>> I had some "C" cells a while ago that were NiCd with the same problem - 
>> it turns out that the "C" cell simply contained a single NiCd cell in a 
>> larger container. Yes, it "replaced" a "C" cell, but I thought it was 
>> false advertising or worse. You may have a similar situation.
>
> The answer I got from Energizer is that the public isn't very interested 
> in C and D cell batteries...they mainly want AA and AAA.  Thus, most of 
> the R&D is going into AA and AAA.  I'll call Raovac and see if they give 
> me the same answer.

***
If you are looking for a LARGE capacity D cell, try the industrial size - 
these weigh ONE-QUARTER OF A POUND each.

I had ten of these suckers in series and when I accidentally shorted them 
the current burned the insulation off of the wire that did it - these are 
upward of one amp capacity for a long time.

You may have to do a little searching to find these but they are the kind 
that are used in the hazardous vapor 'sniffers' that the haz mat people use. 
(That unit uses six *matched* batteries (if one battery goes bad, replace 
all of them.)

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 11:59:42 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 15:00:06 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net>

anon wrote:
> 
> ***
> If you are looking for a LARGE capacity D cell, try the industrial size - 
> these weigh ONE-QUARTER OF A POUND each.
> 
> I had ten of these suckers in series and when I accidentally shorted them 
> the current burned the insulation off of the wire that did it - these are 
> upward of one amp capacity for a long time.
> 
> You may have to do a little searching to find these but they are the kind 
> that are used in the hazardous vapor 'sniffers' that the haz mat people use. 
> (That unit uses six *matched* batteries (if one battery goes bad, replace 
> all of them.)
> 

Well if they're re-charagable, I'll get some of them.  :)
From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 12:02:20 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 15:05:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duslv1$v5g$3@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:
> anon wrote:
> 
>>
>> ***
>> If you are looking for a LARGE capacity D cell, try the industrial 
>> size - these weigh ONE-QUARTER OF A POUND each.
>>
>> I had ten of these suckers in series and when I accidentally shorted 
>> them the current burned the insulation off of the wire that did it - 
>> these are upward of one amp capacity for a long time.
>>
>> You may have to do a little searching to find these but they are the 
>> kind that are used in the hazardous vapor 'sniffers' that the haz mat 
>> people use. (That unit uses six *matched* batteries (if one battery 
>> goes bad, replace all of them.)
>>
> 
> Well if they're re-charagable, I'll get some of them.  :)

Wow...found 9000mah D-cell batteries at www.batterywholesale.com
From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 12:05:28 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 15:05:08 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <duslv1$v5g$3@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <duslv1$v5g$3@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dusm4t$v5g$4@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>> anon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ***
>>> If you are looking for a LARGE capacity D cell, try the industrial 
>>> size - these weigh ONE-QUARTER OF A POUND each.
>>>
>>> I had ten of these suckers in series and when I accidentally shorted 
>>> them the current burned the insulation off of the wire that did it - 
>>> these are upward of one amp capacity for a long time.
>>>
>>> You may have to do a little searching to find these but they are the 
>>> kind that are used in the hazardous vapor 'sniffers' that the haz mat 
>>> people use. (That unit uses six *matched* batteries (if one battery 
>>> goes bad, replace all of them.)
>>>
>>
>> Well if they're re-charagable, I'll get some of them.  :)
> 
> 
> Wow...found 9000mah D-cell batteries at www.batterywholesale.com


11,500mAH D-cell NiMH batteries at www.thomasdistributing.com.....holy cow
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Fri Mar 10 12:24:13 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Fri Mar 10 15:25:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net...
> anon wrote:
>>
>> ***
>> If you are looking for a LARGE capacity D cell, try the industrial size - 
>> these weigh ONE-QUARTER OF A POUND each.
>>
>> I had ten of these suckers in series and when I accidentally shorted them 
>> the current burned the insulation off of the wire that did it - these are 
>> upward of one amp capacity for a long time.
>>
>> You may have to do a little searching to find these but they are the kind 
>> that are used in the hazardous vapor 'sniffers' that the haz mat people 
>> use. (That unit uses six *matched* batteries (if one battery goes bad, 
>> replace all of them.)
>>
>
> Well if they're re-charagable, I'll get some of them.  :)

***
Yes, but these were NiCad's with the memory problems.

BTW I have found a method of curing  the memory, shorts, and other problems 
with the NiCads. I fixed up a 'bench' that allowed me to reverse charge the 
batteries with voltage well over 20 volts, I would cycle the battery with 
normal/reverse for a few seconds each and after 'maybe' a half dozen tries 
the battery would act normal (the voltage would peak out at 5 - 10 volts - 
probably burned out the short with the high voltage pressure) and then would 
take a normal charge (and work for a long time normally.)

I see in your later posts that you found the better answer (not NiCads) to 
your problem.

I guess the *industrial* opened the idea door.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 12:27:22 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 15:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net>

anon wrote:
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>anon wrote:
>>
>>>***
>>>If you are looking for a LARGE capacity D cell, try the industrial size - 
>>>these weigh ONE-QUARTER OF A POUND each.
>>>
>>>I had ten of these suckers in series and when I accidentally shorted them 
>>>the current burned the insulation off of the wire that did it - these are 
>>>upward of one amp capacity for a long time.
>>>
>>>You may have to do a little searching to find these but they are the kind 
>>>that are used in the hazardous vapor 'sniffers' that the haz mat people 
>>>use. (That unit uses six *matched* batteries (if one battery goes bad, 
>>>replace all of them.)
>>>
>>
>>Well if they're re-charagable, I'll get some of them.  :)
> 
> 
> ***
> Yes, but these were NiCad's with the memory problems.
> 
> BTW I have found a method of curing  the memory, shorts, and other problems 
> with the NiCads. I fixed up a 'bench' that allowed me to reverse charge the 
> batteries with voltage well over 20 volts, I would cycle the battery with 
> normal/reverse for a few seconds each and after 'maybe' a half dozen tries 
> the battery would act normal (the voltage would peak out at 5 - 10 volts - 
> probably burned out the short with the high voltage pressure) and then would 
> take a normal charge (and work for a long time normally.)
> 
> I see in your later posts that you found the better answer (not NiCads) to 
> your problem.
> 
> I guess the *industrial* opened the idea door.
> 

True industrial batteries won't work in normal chargers / devices.  But they 
have non-industrials with the stanard button top that have almost 12k mAH. 
I'll be getting some very soon.  :)
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Fri Mar 10 13:10:35 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Fri Mar 10 16:15:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dusq0e$4bh$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net...
> anon wrote:
>> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>> news:duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>>>anon wrote:
>>>
>>>>***
>>>>If you are looking for a LARGE capacity D cell, try the industrial 
>>>>size - these weigh ONE-QUARTER OF A POUND each.
>>>>
>>>>I had ten of these suckers in series and when I accidentally shorted 
>>>>them the current burned the insulation off of the wire that did it - 
>>>>these are upward of one amp capacity for a long time.
>>>>
>>>>You may have to do a little searching to find these but they are the 
>>>>kind that are used in the hazardous vapor 'sniffers' that the haz mat 
>>>>people use. (That unit uses six *matched* batteries (if one battery goes 
>>>>bad, replace all of them.)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well if they're re-charagable, I'll get some of them.  :)
>>
>>
>> ***
>> Yes, but these were NiCad's with the memory problems.
>>
>> BTW I have found a method of curing  the memory, shorts, and other 
>> problems with the NiCads. I fixed up a 'bench' that allowed me to reverse 
>> charge the batteries with voltage well over 20 volts, I would cycle the 
>> battery with normal/reverse for a few seconds each and after 'maybe' a 
>> half dozen tries the battery would act normal (the voltage would peak out 
>> at 5 - 10 volts - probably burned out the short with the high voltage 
>> pressure) and then would take a normal charge (and work for a long time 
>> normally.)
>>
>> I see in your later posts that you found the better answer (not NiCads) 
>> to your problem.
>>
>> I guess the *industrial* opened the idea door.
>>
>
> True industrial batteries won't work in normal chargers / devices.  But 
> they have non-industrials with the stanard button top that have almost 12k 
> mAH. I'll be getting some very soon.  :)

**
These said "industrial" on the side and looked like the standard D 
batteries - that was what fit he sniffer. They were just heavy and high 
capacity. Radio shack has some large capacity Ds but I don't think they 
quite as large as the above.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***



From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Mar 10 22:48:23 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Fri Mar 10 17:50:11 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net...

>
> True industrial batteries won't work in normal chargers / devices.  But 
> they have non-industrials with the stanard button top that have almost 12k 
> mAH. I'll be getting some very soon.  :)

You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-) 

From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 14:53:00 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 17:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net> <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:
> 
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>
>> True industrial batteries won't work in normal chargers / devices.  
>> But they have non-industrials with the stanard button top that have 
>> almost 12k mAH. I'll be getting some very soon.  :)
> 
> 
> You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-)

Well yeah, but they're rated in mAH so that's the figure I use.  :-P  I 
still think that's impressive for a rechargable NiMH...I'm kinda pissed that 
I didn't discover them sooner.  I have several 2400mAH batteries in my 
stockpile.  :-/
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Mar 10 22:55:00 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Fri Mar 10 18:00:17 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net> <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut06d$81t$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net...
> Porpoise wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-)
>
> Well yeah, but they're rated in mAH so that's the figure I use.  :-P  I 
> still think that's impressive for a rechargable NiMH...I'm kinda pissed 
> that I didn't discover them sooner.  I have several 2400mAH batteries in 
> my stockpile.  :-/

Yeah, I know what you mean..... pesky digital cameras (battery eaters). 

From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 15:05:01 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 18:05:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <dut06d$81t$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net> <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net> <dut06d$81t$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:
> 
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>> Porpoise wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-)
>>
>>
>> Well yeah, but they're rated in mAH so that's the figure I use.  :-P  
>> I still think that's impressive for a rechargable NiMH...I'm kinda 
>> pissed that I didn't discover them sooner.  I have several 2400mAH 
>> batteries in my stockpile.  :-/
> 
> 
> Yeah, I know what you mean..... pesky digital cameras (battery eaters).

Well the AA NiMH batteries are 2 - 3x better than alkaline...so I'm happy 
there.  It's the D-cells that bug me.  I don't understand why Energizer, 
Raovac, and other battery companies don't make D-cells with the max capacity 
possible.
From devnull at spamcop.net  Fri Mar 10 18:29:34 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Fri Mar 10 18:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net> <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net> <dut06d$81t$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut259$97o$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
news:dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net...
| Porpoise wrote:
| >
| > "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
| > news:dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net...
| >
| >> Porpoise wrote:
| >>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>> You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-)
| >>
| >>
| >> Well yeah, but they're rated in mAH so that's the figure I use.  :-P
| >> I still think that's impressive for a rechargeable NiMH...I'm kinda
| >> pissed that I didn't discover them sooner.  I have several 2400mAH
| >> batteries in my stockpile.  :-/
| >
| >
| > Yeah, I know what you mean..... pesky digital cameras (battery eaters).
|
| Well the AA NiMH batteries are 2 - 3x better than alkaline...so I'm happy
| there.  It's the D-cells that bug me.  I don't understand why Energizer,
| Raovac, and other battery companies don't make D-cells with the max
capacity
| possible.

Because they sell more using the lower capacity business model.


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Fri Mar 10 15:40:21 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Fri Mar 10 18:45:14 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net> <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net> <dut06d$81t$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net> <dut259$97o$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut2p8$9jb$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Frog Prince" <devnull@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:dut259$97o$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
> news:dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net...
> | Porpoise wrote:
> | >
> | > "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
> | > news:dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net...
> | >
> | >> Porpoise wrote:
> | >>
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>> You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-)
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Well yeah, but they're rated in mAH so that's the figure I use.  :-P
> | >> I still think that's impressive for a rechargeable NiMH...I'm kinda
> | >> pissed that I didn't discover them sooner.  I have several 2400mAH
> | >> batteries in my stockpile.  :-/
> | >
> | >
> | > Yeah, I know what you mean..... pesky digital cameras (battery 
> eaters).
> |
> | Well the AA NiMH batteries are 2 - 3x better than alkaline...so I'm 
> happy
> | there.  It's the D-cells that bug me.  I don't understand why Energizer,
> | Raovac, and other battery companies don't make D-cells with the max
> capacity
> | possible.
>
> Because they sell more using the lower capacity business model.
>
>

***
Additionally, the capacity is related to the  drain required by the 
application - LED flashlights vs. motorized toys.

You do not require a high capacity battery for something that has low drain 
LEDs or similar load. And anyway the higher the capacity the more it is 
going to cost.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 15:51:00 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 18:55:09 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <dut259$97o$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net> <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net> <dut06d$81t$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net> <dut259$97o$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut3bn$9gb$1@news.spamcop.net>

Frog Prince wrote:
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
> news:dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net...
> | Porpoise wrote:
> | >
> | > "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
> | > news:dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net...
> | >
> | >> Porpoise wrote:
> | >>
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>> You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-)
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Well yeah, but they're rated in mAH so that's the figure I use.  :-P
> | >> I still think that's impressive for a rechargeable NiMH...I'm kinda
> | >> pissed that I didn't discover them sooner.  I have several 2400mAH
> | >> batteries in my stockpile.  :-/
> | >
> | >
> | > Yeah, I know what you mean..... pesky digital cameras (battery eaters).
> |
> | Well the AA NiMH batteries are 2 - 3x better than alkaline...so I'm happy
> | there.  It's the D-cells that bug me.  I don't understand why Energizer,
> | Raovac, and other battery companies don't make D-cells with the max
> capacity
> | possible.
> 
> Because they sell more using the lower capacity business model.
> 
> 

Not selling to me, anymore. :)
From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 15:51:47 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 18:55:12 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <dut2p8$9jb$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <dusn9i$2p3$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusndv$v5g$5@news.spamcop.net> <dusvq0$7mp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net> <dut06d$81t$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net> <dut259$97o$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dut2p8$9jb$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut3d6$9gb$2@news.spamcop.net>

anon wrote:
> "Frog Prince" <devnull@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
> news:dut259$97o$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
>>news:dut0lh$v5g$7@news.spamcop.net...
>>| Porpoise wrote:
>>| >
>>| > "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
>>| > news:dusvv0$v5g$6@news.spamcop.net...
>>| >
>>| >> Porpoise wrote:
>>| >>
>>| >>>
>>| >>>
>>| >>>
>>| >>> You mean 12 Ah (1000 * 1/1000ths = 1)    ;-)
>>| >>
>>| >>
>>| >> Well yeah, but they're rated in mAH so that's the figure I use.  :-P
>>| >> I still think that's impressive for a rechargeable NiMH...I'm kinda
>>| >> pissed that I didn't discover them sooner.  I have several 2400mAH
>>| >> batteries in my stockpile.  :-/
>>| >
>>| >
>>| > Yeah, I know what you mean..... pesky digital cameras (battery 
>>eaters).
>>|
>>| Well the AA NiMH batteries are 2 - 3x better than alkaline...so I'm 
>>happy
>>| there.  It's the D-cells that bug me.  I don't understand why Energizer,
>>| Raovac, and other battery companies don't make D-cells with the max
>>capacity
>>| possible.
>>
>>Because they sell more using the lower capacity business model.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> ***
> Additionally, the capacity is related to the  drain required by the 
> application - LED flashlights vs. motorized toys.
> 
> You do not require a high capacity battery for something that has low drain 
> LEDs or similar load. And anyway the higher the capacity the more it is 
> going to cost.
> 

Good point.  I don't mind paying for the higher capacity...I mean imagine 
how long six 12,000mAH batteries will last in my Coleman camping lantern.  :)
From post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com  Fri Mar 10 18:19:01 2006
From: post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com (DougW)
Date: Fri Mar 10 19:20:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <duslv1$v5g$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusm4t$v5g$4@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut51f$bec$1@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio did pass the time by typing:

> 11,500mAH D-cell NiMH batteries at www.thomasdistributing.com.....holy cow

That's a _stiff_ f-ing battery. O_O

I buy stuff from Thomas all the time, odd though I never looked for batteries.

Just imagine, a battery powered welder.  :)

-- 
DougW 


From borgholio at storymind.com  Fri Mar 10 16:24:19 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Fri Mar 10 19:25:13 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Battery question.
In-Reply-To: <dut51f$bec$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <duq0j4$cbk$3@news.spamcop.net> <duqdd9$m15$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusj6j$v5g$1@news.spamcop.net> <duslje$1mn$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<duslq3$v5g$2@news.spamcop.net> <duslv1$v5g$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dusm4t$v5g$4@news.spamcop.net> <dut51f$bec$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dut5a6$9gb$4@news.spamcop.net>

DougW wrote:
> Borgholio did pass the time by typing:
> 
> 
>>11,500mAH D-cell NiMH batteries at www.thomasdistributing.com.....holy cow
> 
> 
> That's a _stiff_ f-ing battery. O_O
> 
> I buy stuff from Thomas all the time, odd though I never looked for batteries.
> 
> Just imagine, a battery powered welder.  :)
> 

They have battery powered soldering irons...why not a welder?  :)  Also, 
about 10 of those D-cell batteries will be enough to crank over a car's 
engine a few times.  Wow.
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Sat Mar 11 12:06:10 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Sat Mar 11 15:10:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dukmd2$3nc$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <duvajm$k21$1@news.spamcop.net>

Hey Pete - was the information useful?

"anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message 
news:dukmd2$3nc$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> "Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
> news:pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net...
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I'm looking for two geeky gadgets, but am curious if anyone has any
>> hands-on experience.
>>
>> 1. USB fingerprint reader. Should be WinXP compatible, and work with
>> Firefox. It should have software necessary to store (and backup)
>> usernames and passwords for Windows, various websites, etc. It'd be
>> preferably if, when prompted by the website for the login/pass, it'd
>> prompt me for my fingerprint. When it receives the fingerprint, it
>> should automatically fill in the necessary forms in the browser. Any
>> suggestions?
>>
>> 2. Wireless network camera. Should be outdoor-capable, and preferably
>> able to connect to an 802.11g network. Many I've seen connect to "b"
>> networks with WEP encryption, but I use "g" with WPA/WPA2. I'd prefer to
>> use WPA over WEP for obvious reasons. Pan-and-tilt and zoom would be
>> nice, as would audio, but isn't necessary.
>>
>
> **
> My son, who developed a web site for an apartment complex that included a 
> webcam that the viewer could control sent me the following information and 
> link.
>
> He said that the company has both wired and wireless cameras.
>
> Let me know whether this will work and also if you need any additional 
> information.
>
> http://www.nuspectra.com/detail.aspx?ID=1760
>
> The company nuspectra.com is a great resource for web cams and also have
> excellent customer service.
>
> -- 
> A SpamCop user and forum reader,
> Not Admin
> ***
>
>> Just some geeky gadgets I'm thinking of putting on my wish list, but
>> nothing serious for now.
>>
>> Muchos thanks!
>>
>> -- 
>> Pete Stephenson
>> HeyPete.com
>
> 


From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 13 11:10:18 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 13 14:15:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
In-Reply-To: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:
> This one is a bit of a puzzle.  I've been playing an online game for a 
> month or two and once in awhile I'll get a BSOD.  Checking the game's 
> online forums seem to indicate that it's a sound issue.  I've tried 
> several different versions of my sound card drivers, and reducing my 
> hardware acceleration.  So far I haven't had any more BSODs while I was 
> playing the game...but the strangest thing happened.  I woke up this 
> morning and noticed that my computer had rebooted overnight.  I checked 
> the system log and sure enough:
> 
> 0x00000019 (0x00000020, 0x86477000, 0x86477928, 0x0b250000)
> 
> Now seeing as how the computer wasn't doing squat at 2AM, and I was in 
> bed, I don't see what could have happened.  Every online resource points 
> to a device driver...yeah that narrows it down a bit.  :-/

Still getting the exact same error message, as well as what appears to be 1 
- 3 reboots in a row.  It seems to happen mainly between 4am and 5am.  I 
have a few programs (antivirus, Spybot, etc...) set to run around that time, 
so I'll try re-scheduling and see what happens.  This is most annoying 
though.  The fact it happens at roughly the same time every day means it 
can't be a device driver...and why is it even rebooting in the first place? 
  I have it set to NOT reboot when it gets a BSOD.
From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 13 12:01:07 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 13 15:05:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
In-Reply-To: <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>> This one is a bit of a puzzle.  I've been playing an online game for a 
>> month or two and once in awhile I'll get a BSOD.  Checking the game's 
>> online forums seem to indicate that it's a sound issue.  I've tried 
>> several different versions of my sound card drivers, and reducing my 
>> hardware acceleration.  So far I haven't had any more BSODs while I 
>> was playing the game...but the strangest thing happened.  I woke up 
>> this morning and noticed that my computer had rebooted overnight.  I 
>> checked the system log and sure enough:
>>
>> 0x00000019 (0x00000020, 0x86477000, 0x86477928, 0x0b250000)
>>
>> Now seeing as how the computer wasn't doing squat at 2AM, and I was in 
>> bed, I don't see what could have happened.  Every online resource 
>> points to a device driver...yeah that narrows it down a bit.  :-/
> 
> 
> Still getting the exact same error message, as well as what appears to 
> be 1 - 3 reboots in a row.  It seems to happen mainly between 4am and 
> 5am.  I have a few programs (antivirus, Spybot, etc...) set to run 
> around that time, so I'll try re-scheduling and see what happens.  This 
> is most annoying though.  The fact it happens at roughly the same time 
> every day means it can't be a device driver...and why is it even 
> rebooting in the first place?  I have it set to NOT reboot when it gets 
> a BSOD.

I rebooted the system just now to run chkdsk, and when it finished booting, 
the event log showed the same error code.  I was watching it the whole time 
and there was no BSOD at all...yet one was still logged.  :-/  This is 
getting stranger and stranger.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 14 00:03:22 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 13 19:10:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> I rebooted the system just now to run chkdsk, and when it finished 
> booting, the event log showed the same error code.  I was watching it the 
> whole time and there was no BSOD at all...yet one was still logged.  :-/ 
> This is getting stranger and stranger.

It's the invasion of the ......................................... COMPUTER 
SNATCHERS!!!!!............ 

From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 13 16:07:44 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 13 19:10:07 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
In-Reply-To: <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:
> 
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>
>> I rebooted the system just now to run chkdsk, and when it finished 
>> booting, the event log showed the same error code.  I was watching it 
>> the whole time and there was no BSOD at all...yet one was still 
>> logged.  :-/ This is getting stranger and stranger.
> 
> 
> It's the invasion of the ......................................... 
> COMPUTER SNATCHERS!!!!!............

Sure feels like it.  :)  I'm thinking it's some program that's rebooting the 
system.  I have Spybod S&D running at 4 am, and AVG auto-updates at about 
the same time.  It could be that either of them is rebooting the system 
after it updates itself.  I've changed the AVG update time to keep a better 
eye on it.  As for the error codes in event log, I'm thinking it's just 
re-logging crashes that happened some time back, as the error codes are 
always identical.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 14 00:23:33 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 13 19:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv52i2$paq$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Porpoise wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's the invasion of the ......................................... 
>> COMPUTER SNATCHERS!!!!!............
>
> Sure feels like it.  :)  I'm thinking it's some program that's rebooting 
> the system.  I have Spybod S&D running at 4 am, and AVG auto-updates at 
> about the same time.  It could be that either of them is rebooting the 
> system after it updates itself.  I've changed the AVG update time to keep 
> a better eye on it.  As for the error codes in event log, I'm thinking 
> it's just re-logging crashes that happened some time back, as the error 
> codes are always identical.

The error codes could be identical if it's the same error each time. I had 
problems previously with some software clashing with my TV tuner, taking the 
system resources to 90+% and causing the TV software to crash (but leaving 
the sound going in the background!). It took me a little while to discover 
it was F-secure causing the problem (fssm32.exe). Since converting to 
ZoneLabs the problem has not recurred. 

From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 13 16:32:45 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 13 19:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
In-Reply-To: <dv52i2$paq$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv52i2$paq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv52vb$n9e$2@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:
> 
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>> Porpoise wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's the invasion of the ......................................... 
>>> COMPUTER SNATCHERS!!!!!............
>>
>>
>> Sure feels like it.  :)  I'm thinking it's some program that's 
>> rebooting the system.  I have Spybod S&D running at 4 am, and AVG 
>> auto-updates at about the same time.  It could be that either of them 
>> is rebooting the system after it updates itself.  I've changed the AVG 
>> update time to keep a better eye on it.  As for the error codes in 
>> event log, I'm thinking it's just re-logging crashes that happened 
>> some time back, as the error codes are always identical.
> 
> 
> The error codes could be identical if it's the same error each time. I 
> had problems previously with some software clashing with my TV tuner, 
> taking the system resources to 90+% and causing the TV software to crash 
> (but leaving the sound going in the background!). It took me a little 
> while to discover it was F-secure causing the problem (fssm32.exe). 
> Since converting to ZoneLabs the problem has not recurred.

I'm thinking it's something automatic happening at around 4am....it always 
reboots around that time.
From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar 13 22:51:52 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar 13 22:55:06 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv52i2$paq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv52vb$n9e$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv5ekv$22e$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
news:dv52vb$n9e$2@news.spamcop.net...
| Porpoise wrote:
| >
| > "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
| > news:dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net...
| >
| >> Porpoise wrote:
| >>
| >>>
| >>>
| >>> It's the invasion of the .........................................
| >>> COMPUTER SNATCHERS!!!!!............
| >>
| >>
| >> Sure feels like it.  :)  I'm thinking it's some program that's
| >> rebooting the system.  I have Spybod S&D running at 4 am, and AVG
| >> auto-updates at about the same time.  It could be that either of them
| >> is rebooting the system after it updates itself.  I've changed the AVG
| >> update time to keep a better eye on it.  As for the error codes in
| >> event log, I'm thinking it's just re-logging crashes that happened
| >> some time back, as the error codes are always identical.
| >
| >
| > The error codes could be identical if it's the same error each time. I
| > had problems previously with some software clashing with my TV tuner,
| > taking the system resources to 90+% and causing the TV software to crash
| > (but leaving the sound going in the background!). It took me a little
| > while to discover it was F-secure causing the problem (fssm32.exe).
| > Since converting to ZoneLabs the problem has not recurred.
|
| I'm thinking it's something automatic happening at around 4am....it always
| reboots around that time.

Change the system clock to reflect 4AM in your time say 10 AM and watch what
happens.


From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 13 20:26:11 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 13 23:30:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
In-Reply-To: <dv5ekv$22e$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv52i2$paq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv52vb$n9e$2@news.spamcop.net> <dv5ekv$22e$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dv5gl4$31r$1@news.spamcop.net>

Frog Prince wrote:
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
> news:dv52vb$n9e$2@news.spamcop.net...
> | Porpoise wrote:
> | >
> | > "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message
> | > news:dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net...
> | >
> | >> Porpoise wrote:
> | >>
> | >>>
> | >>>
> | >>> It's the invasion of the .........................................
> | >>> COMPUTER SNATCHERS!!!!!............
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Sure feels like it.  :)  I'm thinking it's some program that's
> | >> rebooting the system.  I have Spybod S&D running at 4 am, and AVG
> | >> auto-updates at about the same time.  It could be that either of them
> | >> is rebooting the system after it updates itself.  I've changed the AVG
> | >> update time to keep a better eye on it.  As for the error codes in
> | >> event log, I'm thinking it's just re-logging crashes that happened
> | >> some time back, as the error codes are always identical.
> | >
> | >
> | > The error codes could be identical if it's the same error each time. I
> | > had problems previously with some software clashing with my TV tuner,
> | > taking the system resources to 90+% and causing the TV software to crash
> | > (but leaving the sound going in the background!). It took me a little
> | > while to discover it was F-secure causing the problem (fssm32.exe).
> | > Since converting to ZoneLabs the problem has not recurred.
> |
> | I'm thinking it's something automatic happening at around 4am....it always
> | reboots around that time.
> 
> Change the system clock to reflect 4AM in your time say 10 AM and watch what
> happens.
> 
> 

No need...just spontaneously rebooted on me.  I'm changing audio drivers 
AGAIN....
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Mon Mar 13 20:46:55 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Mon Mar 13 23:50:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dukmd2$3nc$1@news.spamcop.net> <duvajm$k21$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-2089D3.20465413032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <duvajm$k21$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

> Hey Pete - was the information useful?

Very useful. I had purchased some NuSpectra software a while back.

Definitely some interesting material on their website to consider. Now I 
just need a power source for the camera, as it'll be on an "island" 
across the driveway from the house, and there's no electricity there.

Are there solar-powered (preferably topping off a battery for use at 
night) cameras?

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Tue Mar 14 18:33:33 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Tue Mar 14 21:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>,
 Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

> I'm listening!

Whatever's cheaper with reasonable shipping, right?

I dunno about Belkin UPS' -- I stick with APC stuff. I haven't needed to 
replace a battery in years (though I probably should). Once I get some 
money, I'll need to get a UPS for each computer, instead of them sharing 
one, and probably get one for the fish tank too. :)

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From none at domain.invalid  Tue Mar 14 23:15:36 2006
From: none at domain.invalid (Anonymous)
Date: Wed Mar 15 02:15:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dv8erk$mva$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net...
> In article <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>,
> Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm listening!
>
> Whatever's cheaper with reasonable shipping, right?
>
> I dunno about Belkin UPS' -- I stick with APC stuff. I haven't needed to
> replace a battery in years (though I probably should). Once I get some
> money, I'll need to get a UPS for each computer, instead of them sharing
> one, and probably get one for the fish tank too. :)

I have one APC BackUPS ES 500 and one MinuteMan MN525... both work very 
well. One is used just for the computer, the other is for the monitors and 
peripherals... yes, my machine is a bit of a monster and requires that 
much juice, but I wanted to separate the computer's power supply from the 
monitors' and peripherals' power supply to ensure the power to the 
computer was as smooth as possible (no power dips as I kick the monitors 
on, etc.), hence two UPS's.

If you're looking for a really cheap (but really large) UPS unit, you 
should check out:

http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/search

Click on the 'Computer & Office' link (next to the mouse icon), and you'll 
find government surplus computers, printers, monitors, UPS's, pretty much 
anything you could want... It's an auction style sale, notice that most of 
the items have either $0 or $50 as the bid... pretty cheap stuff. Courtesy 
of the DoD and Uncle Sam. 

From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Wed Mar 15 11:02:19 2006
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Wed Mar 15 05:05:49 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <slrne1fphb.5u7.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:33:33 -0800, Pete Stephenson coughed into 
spamcop.geeks and left this in 
<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>:

> I dunno about Belkin UPS'

A Belkin UPS will divert your machine to an ad for their parental 
control service when mains power goes down.

http://groups.google.com/group/news.admin.net-abuse.email/msg/a2f1f0993da51df6?dmode=source

-- 
Steve

Male cadavers are incapable of yielding testimony.
From avoozl at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 15 02:38:31 2006
From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby)
Date: Wed Mar 15 05:40:29 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dv8qpe$tej$1@news.spamcop.net>

Trust me when I say this. The UPS will let you know. :-)

/me plugs ears due to loud beeping noise.

"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net...
> In article <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>,
> I dunno about Belkin UPS' -- I stick with APC stuff. I haven't needed to
> replace a battery in years (though I probably should). Once I get some
> money, I'll need to get a UPS for each computer, instead of them sharing
> one, and probably get one for the fish tank too. :)
>
> -- 
> Pete Stephenson
> HeyPete.com 


From post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com  Wed Mar 15 06:44:17 2006
From: post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com (DougW)
Date: Wed Mar 15 07:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<slrne1fphb.5u7.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <dv926s$1fa$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein did pass the time by typing:
> Pete Stephenson coughed into spamcop.geeks:
>
>> I dunno about Belkin UPS'
>
> A Belkin UPS will divert your machine to an ad for their parental
> control service when mains power goes down.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/news.admin.net-abuse.email/msg/a2f1f0993da51df6?dmode=source

I have a Belkin UPS and it does no such thing.

 That article is about a Belkin >Router<

Belkin Bulldog Plus is the software and it is for monitoring/logging of the UPS
activity and for testing.  It will launch IE if you click on the rotating Belkin logo
but that is all it does.

-- 
DougW 


From nobody at nowhere.invalid  Wed Mar 15 15:23:59 2006
From: nobody at nowhere.invalid (Steven Maesslein)
Date: Wed Mar 15 09:25:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<slrne1fphb.5u7.nobody@127.0.0.1> <dv926s$1fa$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne1g8rv.ari.nobody@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:44:17 -0600, DougW coughed into spamcop.geeks and 
left this in <dv926s$1fa$1@news.spamcop.net>:

> I have a Belkin UPS and it does no such thing.
>
>  That article is about a Belkin >Router<

Please replace the batteries in your humour detector.

http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20031109&mode=classic

This said, after what they did with their routers I'd still never buy a 
Belkin product.

-- 
Steve

Money isn't everything, but at least it keeps the kids in touch.
From philmarshcz at netscape.net  Wed Mar 15 16:49:19 2006
From: philmarshcz at netscape.net (Hunter)
Date: Wed Mar 15 16:50:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
In-Reply-To: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <dva24i$p2q$1@news.spamcop.net>

FYI, I'm using APC, Unitek, SmartCentra & OptiUPS
I prefer the APC for reliability, longevity of the battery, but don't have a long
experience with the other manufactures listed above, except to say that after
one year of using a SmartCentra, it recently failed without giving notice that
it had an internal problem or degrading battery. The OptiUPS come with a CD
for management software, however, this can include a 'webserver/website' to
view the config using IE, the thing defaults to port 80 and appears to advertise
itself? My firewall is showing blocked access to outside IP addresses that are
trying to connect to that UPS webserver using port 80, yet the server is for
dns [public] only and does not have other webservers [e.g. IIS] installed. Yes
its a Win2K box.

Charles wrote:
> I'm listening!
> 
> Froogle gives me the following list:
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=f6c500+belkin+replacement+battery&num=
> 100
> &hl=en&hs=Din&lr=&client=opera&rls=en&sa=N&tab=ff&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=title
> 
> Or:
> http://tinyurl.com/zezsa
> 
> And, frankly, isn't zezsa a cool link name?  I mean, for some randomly 
> generated thing...

From post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com  Wed Mar 15 17:40:16 2006
From: post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com (DougW)
Date: Wed Mar 15 18:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<slrne1fphb.5u7.nobody@127.0.0.1> <dv926s$1fa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrne1g8rv.ari.nobody@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <dva8ks$t49$1@news.spamcop.net>

Steven Maesslein did pass the time by typing:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:44:17 -0600, DougW coughed into spamcop.geeks and
> left this in <dv926s$1fa$1@news.spamcop.net>:
>
>> I have a Belkin UPS and it does no such thing.
>>
>>  That article is about a Belkin >Router<
>
> Please replace the batteries in your humour detector.

It's hard to find dry-cells these days. :)

> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20031109&mode=classic
>
> This said, after what they did with their routers I'd still never buy a
> Belkin product.

Actually Linksys (borged by Cisco) has similar capabilty.  It's one of those
bandwagons gear makers jump on from time to time.

-- 
DougW 


From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Thu Mar 16 02:21:50 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Thu Mar 16 05:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Suggestions on vendor for UPS battery
References: <Xns97864F74BFBB4TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<pete+usenet-4CEACE.18333314032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<Xns97874E33D3BBETheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-48194C.02215016032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <Xns97874E33D3BBETheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>,
 Charles <8hmte5s02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

> Well, um.  If you have something good to say about the vendor and the 
> stuff, then, sure.  But I've already done the "cheapest battery with 
> shipping" deal and come up, well, very unhappy.  Digicam nimh batteries 
> SUCK!

Ain't that the truth? I've had a few bad experiences here and there with 
various merchants, but not really anything that'd scare me off from 
buying stuff online.

I generally buy from reputable stores or the manufacturer. APC has an 
interesting "trade-UPS" program where you can send in your old UPS and 
battery and get a discount on a new one. Sounds good to me.

It looks like Amazon has replacement batteries for a variety of UPSs. I 
briefly searched through their listings and saw a few for Belkin ones. 
Now I need to get to sleep. :)

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 16 14:56:10 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Thu Mar 16 18:00:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dukmd2$3nc$1@news.spamcop.net> <duvajm$k21$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-2089D3.20465413032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dvcqee$drm$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-2089D3.20465413032006@news.cesmail.net...
> In article <duvajm$k21$1@news.spamcop.net>,
> "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Pete - was the information useful?
>
> Very useful. I had purchased some NuSpectra software a while back.
>
> Definitely some interesting material on their website to consider. Now I
> just need a power source for the camera, as it'll be on an "island"
> across the driveway from the house, and there's no electricity there.
>
> Are there solar-powered (preferably topping off a battery for use at
> night) cameras?
>
> -- 
> Pete Stephenson
> HeyPete.com

***
Pete,

Here is a follow-up from my son about your remote battery problem.

--from son--
Glad the link helped.

Regarding the power source:

12 volt lead acid with suitable amp hours attached to small solar cell to 
apply a trickle charge.  The following are links to low cost solar 
solutions:

The build it yourself option
http://www.rain.org/~philfear/how2solar.html

List of low cost solar cells & battery units
http://www.nextag.com/12-volt-solar-charger/search-html

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From borgholio at storymind.com  Thu Mar 16 17:10:51 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Thu Mar 16 20:15:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Troubleshooting an XP BSOD
In-Reply-To: <dv5gl4$31r$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dsiobf$opn$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv4g2r$fea$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv4j23$h0i$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv51c6$on9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv51ge$n9e$1@news.spamcop.net> <dv52i2$paq$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv52vb$n9e$2@news.spamcop.net> <dv5ekv$22e$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dv5gl4$31r$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvd2at$icp$1@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:

> 
> No need...just spontaneously rebooted on me.  I'm changing audio drivers 
> AGAIN....

Well it seems that it's a combination of problems.  The sound card was 
certainly the source of that original BSOD.  However, my rebooting 
issues in the morning seemed to have been the result of the power 
supply.  Over a year ago, I had purchased an Allied 500w power supply. 
It worked great, until I jostled the computer and the whole thing shut 
down.  After replacing the power supply with an identical model, I 
thought I had it licked.

This morning it rebooted again.  Only this time, something got corrupted 
on the HD and I had to reformat and reinstall.  To save the data on the 
old drive, I got a new hard drive (160gb) and set about installing it. 
About 10 minutes later I fired it up and began to configure the disc. 
When I put the side panel on, it jostled the computer.  Guess what 
happened.  Yep.  Shut down.  Turning the system on and rapping the power 
supply with a screwdriver caused it to shut down / reboot.  So I went to 
Fry's and got an Antec power supply.  So far it's working well.  Given 
this new piece of info, I figure that the reason my computer was 
rebooting in the mornings, was because it got so cold, the loose 
connection in the power supply opened up and caused the reboot.  Never 
heard of that happening before in a computer...but it's the only thing 
that makes sense.
From devnull at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 16 22:48:15 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Thu Mar 16 22:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dukmd2$3nc$1@news.spamcop.net> <duvajm$k21$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-2089D3.20465413032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dvcqee$drm$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvdbo8$nbd$1@news.spamcop.net>


"anon"

| >> Hey Pete - was the information useful?
| >
| > Very useful. I had purchased some NuSpectra software a while back.
| >
| > Definitely some interesting material on their website to consider. Now I
| > just need a power source for the camera, as it'll be on an "island"
| > across the driveway from the house, and there's no electricity there.
| >
| > Are there solar-powered (preferably topping off a battery for use at
| > night) cameras?
| >
| > -- 
| > Pete Stephenson
| > HeyPete.com
|
| ***
| Pete,
|
| Here is a follow-up from my son about your remote battery problem.
|
| --from son--
| Glad the link helped.
|
| Regarding the power source:
|
| 12 volt lead acid with suitable amp hours attached to small solar cell to
| apply a trickle charge.  The following are links to low cost solar
| solutions:
|
| The build it yourself option
| http://www.rain.org/~philfear/how2solar.html
|
| List of low cost solar cells & battery units
| http://www.nextag.com/12-volt-solar-charger/search-html

If you use a solar charger get a controller.  As to lead acid use a quality
deep cycle.  Golfcart batteries from Sams are a good bet.


From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Fri Mar 17 01:20:00 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Fri Mar 17 04:20:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Geeky Gadgets
References: <pete+usenet-F37CD4.03351904032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dukmd2$3nc$1@news.spamcop.net> <duvajm$k21$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<pete+usenet-2089D3.20465413032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dvcqee$drm$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-BBB161.01200017032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <dvcqee$drm$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "anon" <vxpy7do02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

> Here is a follow-up from my son about your remote battery problem.

Ah, excellent information. Thanks! :)

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar 20 16:34:43 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar 20 16:35:19 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Need help networking  a Mac G4 laptop (OS10.2) and  PC W98 SE
Message-ID: <dvn75r$avs$3@news.spamcop.net>

Need help networking a Mac G4 laptop (OS10.2) and  PC W98 SE.

The PC is connected to a Linksys WRT54G V5 via an CAT5 cable.  The G4 uses
Wifi.

TIA

FP
brother_rabbit @ hotmail.com (remove spaces)


From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar 20 19:55:39 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar 20 20:00:15 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] 
	Re: Need help networking  a Mac G4 laptop (OS10.2) and  PC W98 SE
References: <dvn75r$avs$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<ozchzhq02-F215D3.16461720032006@frylock.local>
Message-ID: <dvniuk$i5d$1@news.spamcop.net>

"David Dean"

| > Need help networking a Mac G4 laptop (OS10.2) and  PC W98 SE.
|
|    the mac can access the windows shares by using Command-K from the
| Finder and typing smb://PCNAME
|    You can turn on PC style file sharing for the mac in the Sharing
| control panel

Recall I'm not at all sharp on networking.  How do I go about the above.


From six.million at dollar.man  Mon Mar 20 22:47:06 2006
From: six.million at dollar.man (dwåcôn)
Date: Mon Mar 20 22:50:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Switch
Message-ID: <dvnsvj$oe4$1@news.spamcop.net>

Looking for a device that will allow me to a single monitor, keyboard and 
mouse (and speakers) with two PCs and switch back and forth.  Any 
recommendations?

TIA! 


From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar 20 23:20:34 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar 20 23:25:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Switch
References: <dvnsvj$oe4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvnv3m$pqc$1@news.spamcop.net>


"dwåcôn" <six.million@dollar.man> wrote in message
news:dvnsvj$oe4$1@news.spamcop.net...
| Looking for a device that will allow me to a single monitor, keyboard and
| mouse (and speakers) with two PCs and switch back and forth.  Any
| recommendations?
|

They make a switch that does the deed for display and keyboard as I have a
very old one.  I imagine they make one for all four functions.

The one I have does have problems when the keyboard is switched to the other
PC seems the first PC sees the switch as a disconnected key board.


From MikeE at ster.invalid  Mon Mar 20 20:51:24 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Mon Mar 20 23:55:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Switch
References: <dvnsvj$oe4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvo0o6$qs9$1@news.spamcop.net>

dw?c?n wrote:
> Looking for a device that will allow me to a single monitor, keyboard
> and mouse (and speakers) with two PCs and switch back and forth.  Any
> recommendations?

My local Fry's has a 2 box KVM [keyboard, video, mouse] switch on sale
this past weekend until tomorrow that I was thinking about buying.

The speaker situation isn't in it.

Oh, here's one with audio
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=507&sku=29561  PORT
AUTHORITY2 2-PORT VGA AND PS/2 MICRO KVM WITH AUDIO

When you're shopping, don't forget the cables.  Sometimes they're just
advertising the switch.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From none at domain.invalid  Mon Mar 20 21:37:49 2006
From: none at domain.invalid (Anonymous)
Date: Tue Mar 21 00:40:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Switch
References: <dvnsvj$oe4$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvo0o6$qs9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvo3c6$shj$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:dvo0o6$qs9$1@news.spamcop.net...
> dw?c?n wrote:
>> Looking for a device that will allow me to a single monitor, keyboard
>> and mouse (and speakers) with two PCs and switch back and forth.  Any
>> recommendations?
>
> My local Fry's has a 2 box KVM [keyboard, video, mouse] switch on sale
> this past weekend until tomorrow that I was thinking about buying.
>
> The speaker situation isn't in it.
>
> Oh, here's one with audio
> http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=507&sku=29561  PORT
> AUTHORITY2 2-PORT VGA AND PS/2 MICRO KVM WITH AUDIO
>
> When you're shopping, don't forget the cables.  Sometimes they're just
> advertising the switch.

There are a few online traders I provide IT support for that have a setup 
like this, except each computer has its own monitors and speakers, and the 
mouse and keyboard are switched between the computers. The KVM switch they 
use does have the capability of switching the monitor and speaker 
connections, they're just not using it that way because they've got 
multiple monitors on each computer, and want to hear the audio from each 
computer all the time.

You switch between the two computers by pressing Scroll Lock twice in 
rapid succession. Works very well, no problems with the computers that 
aren't connected to the keyboard and mouse at the time, even when booting.

They'd tried a manual switch in the past (where you had to press a button 
on the KVM switch), but it was cumbersome, and sometimes didn't switch 
over... the new one switches every time, and they don't have to reach very 
far to hit the Scroll Lock key, so it's much more convenient.

They got the switch at Best Buy, made by IOGear. IOGear makes 2, 4 and 8 
computer models.

From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Wed Mar 22 01:13:16 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Wed Mar 22 04:15:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>

I already use several CFL bulbs around the house (mostly made by TCPi or 
Commercial Electric [the latter being from Home Depot]) and have been 
quite satisfied with them.

As incandescent bulbs around the house burn out, I'm convincing the 
folks to replace them with CFL lights. For their sake, I want to pick 
bulbs that provide an incandescent-like light (around 2700K) that is 
consistent from bulb-to-bulb. We'd need bulbs with both standard and 
candelabra bases, and in a variety of brightnesses (40-watt equivalent 
for the candelabra base fixture in the hallway, and 60-watt equivalent 
standard bases [but in the "torpedo" shape] for the outdoor driveway 
lights [which are protected from the elements]). Also, having 
regular-shaped bulbs (globe-enclosed or spiral bulbs are fine) and 
indoor floods is important.

I've found that different bulb brands, while claiming the same color 
temperature, frequently have slightly differing colors. For example, 
Commercial Electric 40-watt equivalent CFLs produce a yellowish light, 
while TCPi 65-watt equivalent floods produce a slightly more pinkish 
light.

While this difference doesn't bug me, it's likely to bug the folks a 
fair bit, which is something I'd like to avoid.

I'd prefer to stick with brand-name bulbs that are available from a 
local source (GE, Commercial Electric, TCPi, etc.) rather than off-brand 
value bulbs from unknown manufacturers that may be hard to match later.

Any suggestions? Personal experience?

(Interestingly enough, it seems that TCPi makes both the "Commercial 
Electric" brand CFLs at Home Depot and the "DuraBright" brand at Orchard 
Supply Hardware. Perhaps it's just this one particular TCPi bulb I have 
here, but it produced a noticeably pinkish light -- after I replaced it 
with another of the same brand and model, the replacement emits a more 
natural, yellow-white light. Hmm. Maybe just a quirk?)

.....

On a similar note, I'm curious what the difference is between the 
retail-packaged Commercial Electric 60-watt equivalent spiral CFLs and 
the "Contractor Grade" Commercial Electric 60-watt equivalent spiral 
CFLs. Both are available at Home Depot, both are manufactured by the 
same company, but the "contractor grade" ones come in a bland cardboard 
box, while the retail ones come in a flashy retail package.

I wonder if there's actually any mechanical difference between the two 
types of bulbs, or if it's just a packaging/marketing ploy? If they're 
exactly the same, I might as well buy the "contractor" ones, as they're 
bulk-packed and less expensive.

.....

Finally (and I know this is getting long!), I received a gift 
certificate to ThinkGeek.com and bought a Kill-A-Watt 
(http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7657/) electric monitoring 
device. It's illuminating (pun very much intended) to use it to see how 
much electricity various appliances use.

Some, like my Honeywell air filter (the room gets dusty) only uses about 
10W, which is less than expected. Others, like my toaster (1500W), use 
more than I expected.

I'm surprised at how efficient my desk area is -- with a laser printer 
on standby (it uses about 800W to warm up the elements, and no 
perceptible power to remain either idle or warmed up for about 10 
minutes, after which time it goes into power-save mode), a 19" LCD 
monitor, a 2x2Ghz PowerMac G5, and a 2.2Ghz Athlon64 PC, only about 480W 
are being consumed. With all the computers, screen, and printer off, the 
APC UPS, router, Vonage box, DSL modem, and network switch (as well as 
the wall-warts powering them) draw about 45W.

The PowerMac G5 in "sleep" mode draws 11W while my Monsoon Audio 
speakers draw 30W idle, presumably much more when being fully utilized.

Wattage estimates for lightbulbs appear to be spot on: a 65W GE 
floodlight consumes 63W, and a 15W CFL bulb consumes 13W.

Hooray for a nerdy piece of equipment that actually has use!

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Wed Mar 22 07:44:56 2006
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (POP)
Date: Wed Mar 22 07:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dvrgs0$14t$1@news.spamcop.net>

>
> .....
>
> Finally (and I know this is getting long!), I received a gift
> certificate to ThinkGeek.com and bought a Kill-A-Watt
> (http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7657/) electric 
> monitoring
> device. It's illuminating (pun very much intended) to use it to 
> see how
> much electricity various appliances use.
>
It's a surprisingly affordable, accurate device.  Also handy for 
looking at where you can cut electric costs without creating a 
big nuisance to yourself and others, and where it wouldn't make 
sense to even try until the bigger ones are taken care of.  I 
found some of the Power Factor readings surprising, too.

Pop


From joegill at removethis  Wed Mar 22 08:15:29 2006
From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill)
Date: Wed Mar 22 08:20:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dvrilf$2br$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net...
>I already use several CFL bulbs around the house (mostly made by TCPi or
> Commercial Electric [the latter being from Home Depot]) and have been
> quite satisfied with them.
>

Along this same thread...

I looked @ CFL's a few years back and found them...

- GREAT for decorative lighting
- GREAT for bedroom lighting

but I could not find

1) Ones for a direct replacement for 125-150 reading lights and leaving the 
table lamp at the same distance.

2) Placing the unit(s) in a closed ceiling fixture design for 2 60-watt 
bulbs . (Heat dissipation)




From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 22 14:26:12 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed Mar 22 14:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] M$ kills Christmas 2006
Message-ID: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net>

Microsoft's Windows Delay Threatens to Erode Demand (Update2)

March 22 (Bloomberg) -- Microsoft Corp.'s delay in the next version of
Windows software sent shares of computer makers lower on concern a January
release will wipe out demand during the holiday shopping season.

PC makers were relying on a November release of Windows Vista to bolster
holiday sales that account for about 30 percent of purchases. Redmond,
Washington-based Microsoft, the world's largest software maker, was already
two years late on the project and hasn't released a new Windows since 2001.

``Few things could have done more damage to the 2006 PC market than the slip
of Windows Vista,'' Rob Enderle, president of San Jose, California-based
researcher Enderle Group, said in an interview. ``This will have an adverse
impact on a broad cross-section of components and platform PC suppliers.''

Shares of Microsoft, PC makers and chip manufacturers fell. The PC industry
will lose more than $4 billion in sales this year from the delay, Gartner
Inc. analyst Charles Smulders said. Microsoft gets about 31 percent of its
revenue from Windows, and the delay may cause it to lose almost $500 million
in the holiday quarter, said Charles Di Bona, an analyst at Sanford C.
Bernstein. The company is depending on Vista to revive sales growth.

Microsoft will this week name executive Steven Sinofsky to head the Windows
group, taking over duties from James Allchin when he retires as planned
later this year, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing people familiar
with the situation.


From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed Mar 22 11:29:12 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed Mar 22 14:30:07 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>

indigo wrote:
> Microsoft's Windows Delay Threatens to Erode Demand (Update2)
> 
> March 22 (Bloomberg) -- Microsoft Corp.'s delay in the next version of
> Windows software sent shares of computer makers lower on concern a January
> release will wipe out demand during the holiday shopping season.
> 
> PC makers were relying on a November release of Windows Vista to bolster
> holiday sales that account for about 30 percent of purchases. Redmond,
> Washington-based Microsoft, the world's largest software maker, was already
> two years late on the project and hasn't released a new Windows since 2001.
> 
> ``Few things could have done more damage to the 2006 PC market than the slip
> of Windows Vista,'' Rob Enderle, president of San Jose, California-based
> researcher Enderle Group, said in an interview. ``This will have an adverse
> impact on a broad cross-section of components and platform PC suppliers.''
> 
> Shares of Microsoft, PC makers and chip manufacturers fell. The PC industry
> will lose more than $4 billion in sales this year from the delay, Gartner
> Inc. analyst Charles Smulders said. Microsoft gets about 31 percent of its
> revenue from Windows, and the delay may cause it to lose almost $500 million
> in the holiday quarter, said Charles Di Bona, an analyst at Sanford C.
> Bernstein. The company is depending on Vista to revive sales growth.
> 
> Microsoft will this week name executive Steven Sinofsky to head the Windows
> group, taking over duties from James Allchin when he retires as planned
> later this year, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing people familiar
> with the situation.
> 
> 

And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be ready 
for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than XP 
currently has?
From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 22 14:34:32 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed Mar 22 14:35:15 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net>



Borgholio wrote:
> And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be
> ready for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than XP
> currently has?

What? Mickeysoft admit that they always release buggy and insecure software?
Surely you jest!


From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed Mar 22 11:38:14 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed Mar 22 14:40:13 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>

indigo wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>>And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be
>>ready for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than XP
>>currently has?
> 
> 
> What? Mickeysoft admit that they always release buggy and insecure software?
> Surely you jest!
> 
> 

Combined with how much "Big Brother" bullshit is in Vista...do you smell 
something burning?
From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 22 16:22:40 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed Mar 22 16:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net>



Borgholio wrote:
> indigo wrote:
> > Borgholio wrote:
> >
> >>And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be
> >>ready for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than
> >>XP currently has?
> >
> >
> > What? Mickeysoft admit that they always release buggy and insecure
> > software? Surely you jest!
> >
> >
>
> Combined with how much "Big Brother" bullshit is in Vista...do you
> smell something burning?

What more big brother stuff are they doing now? The non-portable XP license
BS was bad enough!


From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed Mar 22 13:29:36 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed Mar 22 16:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>

indigo wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>>indigo wrote:
>>
>>>Borgholio wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be
>>>>ready for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than
>>>>XP currently has?
>>>
>>>
>>>What? Mickeysoft admit that they always release buggy and insecure
>>>software? Surely you jest!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Combined with how much "Big Brother" bullshit is in Vista...do you
>>smell something burning?
> 
> 
> What more big brother stuff are they doing now? The non-portable XP license
> BS was bad enough!
> 
> 

DRM is built in to the OS, as is media licensing.  Also (and of course 
they deny this), Palladium is still alive and kicking.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 22 16:48:39 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed Mar 22 16:50:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net>



Borgholio wrote:
> DRM is built in to the OS, as is media licensing.  Also (and of course
> they deny this), Palladium is still alive and kicking.

Repeat, in Engrish, por favor. DRM? Palladium?


From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed Mar 22 14:28:28 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed Mar 22 17:30:14 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsj0r$gsa$4@news.spamcop.net>

indigo wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>>DRM is built in to the OS, as is media licensing.  Also (and of course
>>they deny this), Palladium is still alive and kicking.
> 
> 
> Repeat, in Engrish, por favor. DRM? Palladium?
> 
> 

Digital Rights Management = they can control how you use your music. 
For example, they may not allow you to rip your CD into MP3 format.

Palladium = A hardware / software solution which will basically allow 
hardware manufacturers to control which operating systems you 
install...or allow operating system manufacturers to control which 3rd 
party programs you can install.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 22 18:22:14 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed Mar 22 18:25:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsj0r$gsa$4@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsm76$qsr$1@news.spamcop.net>



Borgholio wrote:
>
> Digital Rights Management = they can control how you use your music.
> For example, they may not allow you to rip your CD into MP3 format.
>
> Palladium = A hardware / software solution which will basically allow
> hardware manufacturers to control which operating systems you
> install...or allow operating system manufacturers to control which 3rd
> party programs you can install.

That's TOTAL BULLSHIT! They really think anyone is going to buy software
with those kinds of restrictions? They're outta their fucking minds!


From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed Mar 22 15:29:52 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed Mar 22 18:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvsm76$qsr$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsj0r$gsa$4@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsm76$qsr$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsmjv$gsa$5@news.spamcop.net>

indigo wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>>Digital Rights Management = they can control how you use your music.
>>For example, they may not allow you to rip your CD into MP3 format.
>>
>>Palladium = A hardware / software solution which will basically allow
>>hardware manufacturers to control which operating systems you
>>install...or allow operating system manufacturers to control which 3rd
>>party programs you can install.
> 
> 
> That's TOTAL BULLSHIT! They really think anyone is going to buy software
> with those kinds of restrictions? They're outta their fucking minds!
> 
> 

People bought XP in droves even though it needed to be activated, didn't 
they?
From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed Mar 22 15:32:36 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed Mar 22 18:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvsmjv$gsa$5@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsj0r$gsa$4@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsm76$qsr$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsmjv$gsa$5@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsmp4$gsa$6@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:
> indigo wrote:
> 
>> Borgholio wrote:
>>
>>> Digital Rights Management = they can control how you use your music.
>>> For example, they may not allow you to rip your CD into MP3 format.
>>>
>>> Palladium = A hardware / software solution which will basically allow
>>> hardware manufacturers to control which operating systems you
>>> install...or allow operating system manufacturers to control which 3rd
>>> party programs you can install.
>>
>>
>>
>> That's TOTAL BULLSHIT! They really think anyone is going to buy software
>> with those kinds of restrictions? They're outta their fucking minds!
>>
>>
> 
> People bought XP in droves even though it needed to be activated, didn't 
> they?

I should note that I haven't heard anything on Palladium in quite 
awhile...but naturally that doesn't mean it went away.
From nobody at spamcop.net  Wed Mar 22 18:34:05 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Wed Mar 22 18:35:09 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsj0r$gsa$4@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsm76$qsr$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsmjv$gsa$5@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsmte$r80$1@news.spamcop.net>



Borgholio wrote:
> indigo wrote:
> > Borgholio wrote:
> >
> >>Digital Rights Management = they can control how you use your music.
> >>For example, they may not allow you to rip your CD into MP3 format.
> >>
> >>Palladium = A hardware / software solution which will basically
> >>allow hardware manufacturers to control which operating systems you
> >>install...or allow operating system manufacturers to control which
> >>3rd party programs you can install.
> >
> >
> > That's TOTAL BULLSHIT! They really think anyone is going to buy
> > software with those kinds of restrictions? They're outta their
> > fucking minds!
> >
> >
>
> People bought XP in droves even though it needed to be activated,
> didn't they?

Those steps above are a far cry from having to register XP.


From borgholio at storymind.com  Wed Mar 22 15:40:10 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Wed Mar 22 18:40:16 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvsmte$r80$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsj0r$gsa$4@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsm76$qsr$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsmjv$gsa$5@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsmte$r80$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvsn7a$gsa$7@news.spamcop.net>

indigo wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:

>>>
>>
>>People bought XP in droves even though it needed to be activated,
>>didn't they?
> 
> 
> Those steps above are a far cry from having to register XP.
> 
> 

Like I said...Big Brother.  :)  XP is the limit for me...now way I'm 
buying Vista.
From post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com  Wed Mar 22 18:41:00 2006
From: post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com (DougW)
Date: Wed Mar 22 19:45:37 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dvsqqn$uap$1@news.spamcop.net>

Pete Stephenson did pass the time by typing:

> On a similar note, I'm curious what the difference is between the
> retail-packaged Commercial Electric 60-watt equivalent spiral CFLs and
> the "Contractor Grade" Commercial Electric 60-watt equivalent spiral
> CFLs. Both are available at Home Depot, both are manufactured by the
> same company, but the "contractor grade" ones come in a bland cardboard
> box, while the retail ones come in a flashy retail package.

I got a box of the spiral thingies from Home Depot.  They just wern't
bright enough.  Watch for the cheap ones they just don't have the output.

Lemme see if I can find the box.
Commercial electric, SKU#319-733 Model EDO-13 13W .2A
The advertized output was 30W... They are ok for night lights.

I use them in the hall, since at night or in the morning it's just
enough light to prevent stepping on the cat. (or hairball there of)

-- 
DougW 


From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Wed Mar 22 21:54:09 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Thu Mar 23 00:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-C4AD81.21540922032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>,
 Pete Stephenson <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote:

> On a similar note, I'm curious what the difference is between the 
> retail-packaged Commercial Electric 60-watt equivalent spiral CFLs and 
> the "Contractor Grade" Commercial Electric 60-watt equivalent spiral 
> CFLs. Both are available at Home Depot, both are manufactured by the 
> same company, but the "contractor grade" ones come in a bland cardboard 
> box, while the retail ones come in a flashy retail package.
> 
> I wonder if there's actually any mechanical difference between the two 
> types of bulbs, or if it's just a packaging/marketing ploy? If they're 
> exactly the same, I might as well buy the "contractor" ones, as they're 
> bulk-packed and less expensive.

As a rude follow-up to myself, I wanted to post some information I 
discovered today.

Turns out the "Contractor Grade" box of these bulbs just has the exact 
same lights as the retail-packaged one, only they're in a brown 
cardboard box with styrofoam filler rather than a clear plastic 
container.

12 bulbs for $17.99 today at Home Depot. Not a bad price at all!

I bought a box, and they're exactly the same in all respects. Just FYI.

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Wed Mar 22 21:58:42 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Thu Mar 23 01:00:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dvsqqn$uap$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-08DF99.21584222032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <dvsqqn$uap$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "DougW" <post.please.this.email.is.not.valid@example.com> wrote:

> I got a box of the spiral thingies from Home Depot.  They just wern't
> bright enough.  Watch for the cheap ones they just don't have the output.
> 
> Lemme see if I can find the box.
> Commercial electric, SKU#319-733 Model EDO-13 13W .2A
> The advertized output was 30W... They are ok for night lights.
> 
> I use them in the hall, since at night or in the morning it's just
> enough light to prevent stepping on the cat. (or hairball there of)

Interesting. I have the 60-watt types (only use about 13-15 watts) of 
the Commercial Electric bulbs, and they work excellently, and actually 
put out slightly MORE light than a 60W incandescent bulb, both according 
to the package and my eyes.

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From avoozl at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 23 03:45:24 2006
From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby)
Date: Thu Mar 23 06:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931913,00.asp

Read that before berating Microsoft.

"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net...
> indigo wrote:
>> Borgholio wrote:
>>
>>>And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be
>>>ready for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than XP
>>>currently has?
>>
>>
>> What? Mickeysoft admit that they always release buggy and insecure 
>> software?
>> Surely you jest!
>>
>>
>
> Combined with how much "Big Brother" bullshit is in Vista...do you smell 
> something burning? 


From khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com  Thu Mar 23 12:55:42 2006
From: khhqdty02 at sneakemail.com (Mr K. Mean)
Date: Thu Mar 23 08:00:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <gfiaf3-43m.ln1@mothlight.dyndns.org>

Chris F. Willoughby wrote:
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>>>
>> Combined with how much "Big Brother" bullshit is in Vista...do you smell 
>> something burning? 
> 
>  > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931913,00.asp
 >
 > Read that before berating Microsoft.

So, now that I have read it, can I berate them?  I mean marketing-wise, 
it sound fine, although a lot of items that were being promised a year 
or two ago seem to have disappeared from the features list as the 
timeline for the release keeps stretching out into the future.

So more secure?  Well, that recent nasty security hole, the wrong sized 
mp3 and wmv one, apparently also required patching in the Vista beta 
versions, so it doesn't seem like everything has been made more secure. 
  Like the article said, they can't change a lot of stuff without 
hopelessly breaking backwards compatibility.  I noticed it said non 
administrative accounts will be the default.  Of course, I assume that 
it will continue to be pointless to run that way since things will 
continue to mysteriously and silently fail and the only way to resolve 
that is to just give yourself more privileges.  Why can't Windows ever 
get a handle on making a system that is truly able to handle multi users 
with varying levels of security.  When I can telnet into frozen Windows 
box and kill off a few runaway processes, then it seems like Windows 
will finally get it.

I've heard conflicting things about how good it will be to move some of 
the code in or out of the security rings.  I think I saw a debate on 
where video drivers should live and whether moving those items, written 
by third parties, will make the system more or less stable.  I guess it 
all remains to be seen then.

And the rest of the changes are the standard wizzy marketing spiel. 
Flashy 3D interfaces, built in applications to replace all those that 
most people have already found third party, media player improvements 
(yeah, with tighter restrictions on what media you can play), and a few 
other things that made me yawn.  Most of that is crap that I will have 
to figure out how disable because I detest things that flash and are 
distracting and mostly just waste memory and cpu cycles.

What I would like to see, but will likely not see, is it is completely 
inexcusable that a computer with 1 gig of memory and and whatever super 
fast CPU would ever freeze, but I expect that I will continue to sit and 
wait for 30 seconds, a few minutes while some virus checker freezes my 
desktop while it madly scans for threats.
From borgholio at storymind.com  Thu Mar 23 09:43:17 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Thu Mar 23 12:45:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvumnq$v12$1@news.spamcop.net>

Chris F. Willoughby wrote:
> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931913,00.asp
> 
> Read that before berating Microsoft.

Looks like another shameless whore for M$.  I noticed the article is 
full of "hopefully do this" and "should do that"  The thing that 
bothered me the most is the quote about how "nobody will know how good 
the security is until Vista goes wild".  That's kinda like saying 
there's no way to test the air-bag and seat belt systems in a car until 
people start getting into real auto accidents.

While there are several features that I find interesting, I still don't 
think it'd be worth paying 100 bucks for.
From dws at dealing-with-spam.info  Thu Mar 23 21:28:50 2006
From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S)
Date: Thu Mar 23 15:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne26182.1f7q.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>

Borgholio wrote on Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:29:12 -0800:

> And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be 
> ready for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than XP 
> currently has?

Is that possible?
From dws at dealing-with-spam.info  Thu Mar 23 21:30:05 2006
From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S)
Date: Thu Mar 23 15:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsf71$lsv$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvsfig$gsa$3@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvsgnn$naj$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne261ad.1f7q.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>

indigo wrote on Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:48:39 -0500:

> Repeat, in Engrish, por favor. DRM? Palladium?

Chapter and verse here:

  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
From borgholio at storymind.com  Thu Mar 23 12:31:25 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Thu Mar 23 15:35:07 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
In-Reply-To: <slrne26182.1f7q.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrne26182.1f7q.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <dvv0j0$35b$1@news.spamcop.net>

D-W-S wrote:
> Borgholio wrote on Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:29:12 -0800:
> 
> 
>>And nobody seems to mention the fact that rushing it to try and be 
>>ready for Xmas will result in even more bugs / security holes than XP 
>>currently has?
> 
> 
> Is that possible?

MS is proving it is.
From PossumTrot at dont.spam.me  Thu Mar 23 12:31:29 2006
From: PossumTrot at dont.spam.me (Possum Trot)
Date: Thu Mar 23 15:35:10 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
Message-ID: <dvv0k5$5r4$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Pete Stephenson" <pete+usenet@heypete.com> wrote in message 
news:pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net...
>I already use several CFL bulbs around the house (mostly made by TCPi or
> Commercial Electric [the latter being from Home Depot]) and have been
> quite satisfied with them.
>
> As incandescent bulbs around the house burn out, I'm convincing the
> folks to replace them with CFL lights. For their sake, I want to pick
> bulbs that provide an incandescent-like light (around 2700K) that is
> consistent from bulb-to-bulb.

Pete,   For at least the past 5 years we have been using CFLs for almost 
every bulb we replace, I say almost because a few fixtures like our antique 
floor lamps will not accept them because of their base design.   In much of 
the house we initilally used the 2700 Kelvin "yellow" bulbs that match the 
yellow of incandescent and typical FL tubes..  But living in Seattle, both 
my wife and I are victims of SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder, i.e., slight 
depression due to low levels of natural light).  So we have begun using the 
5100 Kelvin ("Office Daylight") and even the 6500 Kelvin ("Daylight")  CFLs 
to increase light in the blue end of the spectrum.  At my office cube I've 
replaced the under shelf and overhead FL tubes with "Daylight" as well. 
Maybe it's psychological, but we really seem to feel better.  The last batch 
of those two colors of CFLs that we bought were Commercial Electric brand 
from Home Despot (sic).  They were on deep discount, I assume because they 
didn't sell well, or were incorrectly ordered.  Haven't seen them for a year 
or so.  In 5 years I've never had a CFL fail. 


From nobody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 23 15:46:45 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Thu Mar 23 15:50:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns978F7F49C9C62TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
Message-ID: <dvv1fl$73p$1@news.spamcop.net>



Charles wrote:
>
> And I don't like what I hear about the security updates, either.  As
> Kerry pointed out, you won't be able to do anything without being
> admin.

Is "power user" gone? Does this mean I won't be able to install ANY
software?


From nobody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 23 15:48:41 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Thu Mar 23 15:50:08 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dvv0k5$5r4$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvv1j9$78n$1@news.spamcop.net>



Possum Trot wrote:
>
> Pete,   For at least the past 5 years we have been using CFLs for
> almost every bulb we replace, I say almost because a few fixtures
> like our antique floor lamps will not accept them because of their
> base design.

But can those lights handle dimmers? I have quite a few lamps and overheads
with dimmer switches, I thought florescents didn't like that.


From dws at dealing-with-spam.info  Thu Mar 23 21:49:10 2006
From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S)
Date: Thu Mar 23 15:50:11 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns978F7F49C9C62TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dvv1fl$73p$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne262e6.1p71.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>

indigo wrote on Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:46:45 -0500:

> Is "power user" gone? Does this mean I won't be able to install ANY
> software?

Not unless you're 1000 miles away from your computer and it's a trojan 
you're trying to install...
From devnull at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 23 16:04:49 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Thu Mar 23 16:05:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dvv0k5$5r4$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvv1j9$78n$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvv2ht$7rv$1@news.spamcop.net>

"indigo"
| >
| > Pete,   For at least the past 5 years we have been using CFLs for
| > almost every bulb we replace, I say almost because a few fixtures
| > like our antique floor lamps will not accept them because of their
| > base design.
|
| But can those lights handle dimmers? I have quite a few lamps and
overheads
| with dimmer switches, I thought florescents didn't like that.

Been a while but I recall there are special dimmers for FL


From nobody at spamcop.net  Thu Mar 23 16:10:16 2006
From: nobody at spamcop.net (indigo)
Date: Thu Mar 23 16:15:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns978F7F49C9C62TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dvv1fl$73p$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne262e6.1p71.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <dvv2rp$84i$1@news.spamcop.net>



D-W-S wrote:
> indigo wrote on Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:46:45 -0500:
>
> > Is "power user" gone? Does this mean I won't be able to install ANY
> > software?
>
> Not unless you're 1000 miles away from your computer and it's a trojan
> you're trying to install...

That means the answer is yes, no more power user? THAT SUCKS!


From dws at dealing-with-spam.info  Thu Mar 23 22:55:23 2006
From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S)
Date: Thu Mar 23 17:00:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: M$ kills Christmas 2006
References: <dvs8cl$h6j$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs8go$gsa$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvs8s8$hh6$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvs91n$gsa$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvu1mg$j7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<Xns978F7F49C9C62TheShrubIsAnAss@216.154.195.61>
	<dvv1fl$73p$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne262e6.1p71.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<dvv2rp$84i$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne266ab.2aah.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>

indigo wrote on Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:10:16 -0500:

>> > Is "power user" gone? Does this mean I won't be able to install ANY
>> > software?
>>
>> Not unless you're 1000 miles away from your computer and it's a trojan
>> you're trying to install...
>
> That means the answer is yes, no more power user? THAT SUCKS!

Actually I have no idea. That quip was made entirely tongue-in-cheek.

I am no authority at all in things Windows-related (other than seeing 
the amount of crud thrown my way by infected Windows machines) since I 
haven't actualy had to endure using that O/S since Windows 2000.
From post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com  Thu Mar 23 18:06:18 2006
From: post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com (DougW)
Date: Thu Mar 23 19:10:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dvv0k5$5r4$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvv1j9$78n$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<dvv2ht$7rv$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <dvvd5k$dp5$1@news.spamcop.net>

Frog Prince did pass the time by typing:
> "indigo"
>>>
>>> Pete,   For at least the past 5 years we have been using CFLs for
>>> almost every bulb we replace, I say almost because a few fixtures
>>> like our antique floor lamps will not accept them because of their
>>> base design.
>>
>> But can those lights handle dimmers? I have quite a few lamps and overheads
>> with dimmer switches, I thought florescents didn't like that.
>
> Been a while but I recall there are special dimmers for FL

Yep.  FLs are an inductive load that joe-dimmer can't handle.
That's one of my problems around here.  Lots of x-10 based
remote light switches and they can't do FL.

-- 
rbg 


From post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com  Sat Mar 25 10:30:29 2006
From: post.please.this.email.is.not.valid at example.com (DougW)
Date: Sat Mar 25 11:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] of botnets and spammers
Message-ID: <e03r74$qhm$1@news.spamcop.net>

Been noticing a lot of botnet hosted spam sites these days.

So, I've hacked up a program to track them and autolart the
ISP. :)  Meanwhile I've placed an "almost daily" updated logfile
of where these sites are at and what they say they are running.

http://www.revbeergoggles.com/spammers/botnets/

-- 
DougW 


From borgholio at storymind.com  Sun Mar 26 02:47:05 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Sun Mar 26 05:50:14 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Need disk error checker for Windows XP
Message-ID: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net>

I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program, but I find it lacking in 
one important area...locating bad clusters.  Scandisk for Windows 9x was 
able to scan the entire hard drive for bad clusters (including the free 
space).  XP's Chkdsk only scans the areas that actually have data in 
them.  I find this to be a bit stupid...to put it mildly.  I know that 
Norton Utilities includes a disc scanner, but I don't see any way of 
purchasing it without buying the entire Norton Systemworks 
package...which is a form of evil that rivals even Microsoft.  Any other 
suggestions?
From avoozl at spamcop.net  Sun Mar 26 04:32:24 2006
From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby)
Date: Sun Mar 26 07:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>

No, you CAN scan the whole drive.. but it will most likely ask you to 
schedule it to do it on boot.  Just check the option to scan all areas of 
the disk or something like that.

Chris

"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net...
>I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program, but I find it lacking in one 
>important area...locating bad clusters.  Scandisk for Windows 9x was able 
>to scan the entire hard drive for bad clusters (including the free space). 
>XP's Chkdsk only scans the areas that actually have data in them.  I find 
>this to be a bit stupid...to put it mildly.  I know that Norton Utilities 
>includes a disc scanner, but I don't see any way of purchasing it without 
>buying the entire Norton Systemworks package...which is a form of evil that 
>rivals even Microsoft.  Any other suggestions? 


From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Sun Mar 26 11:23:30 2006
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (POP)
Date: Sun Mar 26 11:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Chris F. Willoughby" <avoozl@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net...
> No, you CAN scan the whole drive.. but it will most likely ask 
> you to schedule it to do it on boot.  Just check the option to 
> scan all areas of the disk or something like that.
>
> Chris
>
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program, but I find it 
>>lacking in one important area...locating bad clusters. 
>>Scandisk for Windows 9x was able to scan the entire hard drive 
>>for bad clusters (including the free space). XP's Chkdsk only 
>>scans the areas that actually have data in them.  I find this 
>>to be a bit stupid...to put it mildly.  I know that Norton 
>>Utilities includes a disc scanner, but I don't see any way of 
>>purchasing it without buying the entire Norton Systemworks 
>>package...which is a form of evil that rivals even Microsoft. 
>>Any other suggestions?
>
>
Correct, and it will also mark the bad sectors from use.

Pop


From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Sun Mar 26 11:26:47 2006
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (POP)
Date: Sun Mar 26 11:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] A real shot in the dark
Message-ID: <e06fbo$9di$1@news.spamcop.net>

I know this is a shotgun approach, but ... Any chance anyone here 
is using Sympatico.ca and also sends email to vodaphone.ne.jp 
addresses?

Sympatico, in their infinite wisdom, has passed off their e-mail 
business to Hotmail (msn.com aka .hm) and they're using port 995 
and SSL.  Mails to everywhere but vodafone.ne.jp go through; but 
vodafone bounces.

TIA

Pop


From pete+usenet at heypete.com  Sun Mar 26 13:17:53 2006
From: pete+usenet at heypete.com (Pete Stephenson)
Date: Sun Mar 26 16:20:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Compact Fluorescent Bulb brands?
References: <pete+usenet-11A875.01131622032006@news.cesmail.net>
	<dvv0k5$5r4$1@news.spamcop.net> <dvv1j9$78n$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <pete+usenet-AAB578.13175326032006@news.cesmail.net>

In article <dvv1j9$78n$1@news.spamcop.net>,
 "indigo" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote:

> But can those lights handle dimmers? I have quite a few lamps and overheads
> with dimmer switches, I thought florescents didn't like that.

Generally not. I replaced the dimmers in the downstairs office with 
toggle switches that matched the design to avoid this.

Dimmable CFLs do exist, but I have no experience with them and cannot 
comment on them.

What I CAN comment on is the interesting flicking light, smell of burned 
insulation, and overall This Isn't Good� feeling that comes from dimming 
non-dimmable CFLs. In short: Don't do it. They get permanently damaged.

-- 
Pete Stephenson
HeyPete.com
From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sun Mar 26 13:30:45 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sun Mar 26 16:35:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: A real shot in the dark
References: <e06fbo$9di$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e0715r$k2b$1@news.spamcop.net>

POP wrote:

> vodafone bounces.

I don't see what the SSL and port 995 have to do with anything but your
smtp connectivity to the server.

Precisely and exactly and completely what do you mean that mail to
vodafone 'bounces'?  That is, do you mean your provider is giving you a
delivery status notification failure or do you mean something else, like
vodafone accepts the mail for delivery and then notifies you with a
failure?

Bounces is sometimes a very vague term.  To the sender, it might simply
mean that the intended recipient didn't get the mail, but from a
troubleshooting point of view there needs to be more clarity about how
it broke down.

Depending upon the point of failure, you could also be getting some
additional information by making a copy to yourself with the vodafone
recipient.  That sometimes helps by providing a message id when
otherwise with some other failures there isn't one.  When all you have
is a Sent mail item for a lost mail out, it doesn't have a mid.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From borgholio at storymind.com  Sun Mar 26 13:59:52 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Sun Mar 26 17:00:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>

POP wrote:
> "Chris F. Willoughby" <avoozl@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
> news:e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>No, you CAN scan the whole drive.. but it will most likely ask 
>>you to schedule it to do it on boot.  Just check the option to 
>>scan all areas of the disk or something like that.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>>news:e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>>>I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program, but I find it 
>>>lacking in one important area...locating bad clusters. 
>>>Scandisk for Windows 9x was able to scan the entire hard drive 
>>>for bad clusters (including the free space). XP's Chkdsk only 
>>>scans the areas that actually have data in them.  I find this 
>>>to be a bit stupid...to put it mildly.  I know that Norton 
>>>Utilities includes a disc scanner, but I don't see any way of 
>>>purchasing it without buying the entire Norton Systemworks 
>>>package...which is a form of evil that rivals even Microsoft. 
>>>Any other suggestions?
>>
>>
> Correct, and it will also mark the bad sectors from use.
> 
> Pop
> 
> 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found from 
personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, freshly re-format 
it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill it with data, run chkdsk, 
and it will locate bad sectors that never existed before.
From joegill at removethis  Sun Mar 26 17:10:26 2006
From: joegill at removethis (Joe Gill)
Date: Sun Mar 26 17:15:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e073gk$ljn$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...
> POP wrote:
>> "Chris F. Willoughby" <avoozl@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
>> news:e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>>>No, you CAN scan the whole drive.. but it will most likely ask you to 
>>>schedule it to do it on boot.  Just check the option to scan all areas of 
>>>the disk or something like that.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>>>news:e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>>
>>>>I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program, but I find it lacking in 
>>>>one important area...locating bad clusters. Scandisk for Windows 9x was 
>>>>able to scan the entire hard drive for bad clusters (including the free 
>>>>space). XP's Chkdsk only scans the areas that actually have data in 
>>>>them.  I find this to be a bit stupid...to put it mildly.  I know that 
>>>>Norton Utilities includes a disc scanner, but I don't see any way of 
>>>>purchasing it without buying the entire Norton Systemworks 
>>>>package...which is a form of evil that rivals even Microsoft. Any other 
>>>>suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>> Correct, and it will also mark the bad sectors from use.
>>
>> Pop
>>
>>
>
> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found from 
> personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, freshly re-format 
> it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill it with data, run chkdsk, and 
> it will locate bad sectors that never existed before.

Even with the /F or /R option on clean disk? still coming up blank ("not 
find anything") 


From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Mar 26 23:27:26 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Sun Mar 26 17:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e074h8$m54$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Chris F. Willoughby" <avoozl@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
news:e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net...
> No, you CAN scan the whole drive.. but it will most likely ask you to 
> schedule it to do it on boot.  Just check the option to scan all areas of 
> the disk or something like that.
>

These are the options available:

>chkdsk /?
Checks a disk and displays a status report.


CHKDSK [volume[[path]filename]]] [/F] [/V] [/R] [/X] [/I] [/C] [/L[:size]]


  volume          Specifies the drive letter (followed by a colon),
                  mount point, or volume name.
  filename        FAT/FAT32 only: Specifies the files to check for 
fragmentation.
  /F              Fixes errors on the disk.
  /V              On FAT/FAT32: Displays the full path and name of every 
file
                  on the disk.
                  On NTFS: Displays cleanup messages if any.
  /R              Locates bad sectors and recovers readable information
                  (implies /F).
  /L:size         NTFS only:  Changes the log file size to the specified 
number
                  of kilobytes.  If size is not specified, displays current
                  size.
  /X              Forces the volume to dismount first if necessary.
                  All opened handles to the volume would then be invalid
                  (implies /F).
  /I              NTFS only: Performs a less vigorous check of index 
entries.
  /C              NTFS only: Skips checking of cycles within the folder
                  structure.

The /I or /C switch reduces the amount of time required to run Chkdsk by
skipping certain checks of the volume. 

From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Mar 26 23:30:13 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Sun Mar 26 17:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...

>>
>
> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found from 
> personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, freshly re-format 
> it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill it with data, run chkdsk, and 
> it will locate bad sectors that never existed before.

Well that's logical..... you don't have an MFT until you start loading 
data - it's then that it will determine bad sectors. When you then reformat 
the drive, you lose that data (the table of bad sectors) [since the sectors 
only exist in software]. 

From borgholio at storymind.com  Sun Mar 26 14:43:55 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Sun Mar 26 17:45:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e073gk$ljn$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e073gk$ljn$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e075ef$mn8$1@news.spamcop.net>

Joe Gill wrote:
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...

>>
>>I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found from 
>>personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, freshly re-format 
>>it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill it with data, run chkdsk, and 
>>it will locate bad sectors that never existed before.
> 
> 
> Even with the /F or /R option on clean disk? still coming up blank ("not 
> find anything") 
> 
> 

Yep.  It only finds bad sectors if there's data there.
From borgholio at storymind.com  Sun Mar 26 14:44:31 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Sun Mar 26 17:45:09 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:
> 
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>>
>>
>> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found from 
>> personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, freshly 
>> re-format it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill it with data, 
>> run chkdsk, and it will locate bad sectors that never existed before.
> 
> 
> Well that's logical..... you don't have an MFT until you start loading 
> data - it's then that it will determine bad sectors. When you then 
> reformat the drive, you lose that data (the table of bad sectors) [since 
> the sectors only exist in software].

Yep.  But the old Scandisk could check the empty sectors 
anyways...Chkdsk doesn't.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 27 00:46:50 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Sun Mar 26 18:50:12 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net...
> Porpoise wrote:
>>
>> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>> news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found from 
>>> personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, freshly re-format 
>>> it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill it with data, run chkdsk, 
>>> and it will locate bad sectors that never existed before.
>>
>>
>> Well that's logical..... you don't have an MFT until you start loading 
>> data - it's then that it will determine bad sectors. When you then 
>> reformat the drive, you lose that data (the table of bad sectors) [since 
>> the sectors only exist in software].
>
> Yep.  But the old Scandisk could check the empty sectors anyways...Chkdsk 
> doesn't.

Erm.... yes it does - that's stage 5:

"CHKDSK is verifying freespace (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification complete."

It then goes on to list the results. Here's the full output:


E:\>chkdsk /r
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is RECOVER.

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 5)...
File verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 5)...
Index verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying security descriptors (stage 3 of 5)...
Security descriptor verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
File data verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
Free space verification is complete.
Windows has checked the file system and found no problem.

  17567044 KB total disk space.
   6749860 KB in 6 files.
        12 KB in 13 indexes.
         0 KB in bad sectors.
     66548 KB in use by the system.
     65536 KB occupied by the log file.
  10750624 KB available on disk.

      4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
   4391761 total allocation units on disk.
   2687656 allocation units available on disk.

E:\> 

From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Sun Mar 26 20:20:13 2006
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (POP)
Date: Sun Mar 26 20:20:11 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e07ejt$rhg$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...
> POP wrote:
>> "Chris F. Willoughby" <avoozl@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
>> news:e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>>>No, you CAN scan the whole drive.. but it will most likely ask 
>>>you to schedule it to do it on boot.  Just check the option to 
>>>scan all areas of the disk or something like that.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>>>news:e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>>
>>>>I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program, but I find it 
>>>>lacking in one important area...locating bad clusters. 
>>>>Scandisk for Windows 9x was able to scan the entire hard 
>>>>drive for bad clusters (including the free space). XP's 
>>>>Chkdsk only scans the areas that actually have data in them. 
>>>>I find this to be a bit stupid...to put it mildly.  I know 
>>>>that Norton Utilities includes a disc scanner, but I don't 
>>>>see any way of purchasing it without buying the entire Norton 
>>>>Systemworks package...which is a form of evil that rivals 
>>>>even Microsoft. Any other suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>> Correct, and it will also mark the bad sectors from use.
>>
>> Pop
>>
>>
>
> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found 
> from personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, 
> freshly re-format it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill 
> it with data, run chkdsk, and it will locate bad sectors that 
> never existed before.

Umm, I think I see where you're going with this, and although 
it's a good point for newbies to realize, you seem to be fishing 
for an arguement here, not asking for any actual input.  I'm 
pretty sure you know better from past posts you've made.  Sorry, 
I've no more to say to you on the subject.

Pop


From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Sun Mar 26 20:31:51 2006
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (POP)
Date: Sun Mar 26 20:35:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: A real shot in the dark
References: <e06fbo$9di$1@news.spamcop.net> <e0715r$k2b$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e07f9n$sbc$1@news.spamcop.net>

"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:e0715r$k2b$1@news.spamcop.net...
> POP wrote:
>
>> vodafone bounces.
>
> I don't see what the SSL and port 995 have to do with anything 
> but your
> smtp connectivity to the server.
   They don't really other than to trip the memory of the type of 
user I was shotgunning for <g>.
>
> Precisely and exactly and completely what do you mean that mail 
> to
> vodafone 'bounces'?
I mean that it comes back immediately with a Delivery Status 
Notification Error and, within the .dat file, it mentions that 
there is a syntax problem (not an "error", a "problem".
...
>
> Depending upon the point of failure, you could also be getting 
> some
> additional information by making a copy to yourself with the 
> vodafone
> recipient.  That sometimes helps by providing a message id when
> otherwise with some other failures there isn't one.  When all 
> you have
> is a Sent mail item for a lost mail out, it doesn't have a mid.

Yep, agreed.  This is a one-off where only Sympatico/Vodafone 
can't seem to talk to each other.  A cc to self works perfectly; 
it's only the Vodafone address that bounces, which is across the 
pond and has no apparent email support contacts or forms.  The 
Vodafone users who aren't getting the e-mails have tried to talk 
to Vodafone, but you can imagine how it goes when a third party 
tries to ask questions for someone across the pond; it just turns 
into a "not my job" party.

I left out many, many mundane details because this is a one-up 
problem and I don't think any but a sympatico/vodafone 
experienced person would be able to help.
   My suspicions are that there is a language problem.  SSL is 
required for this connection, but no one can/will say whether 
that's a 3DES or a 69xyz, so ... .
   One positive thing that's happened:  We did finally talk 
someone at Sympatico into setting up their OE to send a mail to a 
vodafone address and guess what?  It bounced to them, just like 
we told them it would; 3 months ago.

Fortunately Webmail reaches them, so all isn't lost, but ... it's 
a hassle when you should, and they give instructions for, setting 
up OE for it.

If you have or should know of anyone who has the wherewital to 
get into something like this, I'd be much obliged to you.  And 
would share a great deal of the excessive information we have 
available, but which would have been lost to usefulness in the 
original post.
   It seems like it's a simple problem if only the right people 
would take a look at it either at sympatico or vodafone.

Thanks, Mike.

Pop

>
> -- 
> Mike Easter
> kibitzer, not SC admin
> 


From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Mar 26 18:04:25 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Sun Mar 26 21:05:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...
> POP wrote:
>> "Chris F. Willoughby" <avoozl@spamcop.net> wrote in message 
>> news:e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>
>>>No, you CAN scan the whole drive.. but it will most likely ask you to 
>>>schedule it to do it on boot.  Just check the option to scan all areas of 
>>>the disk or something like that.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>>>news:e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>>
>>>>I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program, but I find it lacking in 
>>>>one important area...locating bad clusters. Scandisk for Windows 9x was 
>>>>able to scan the entire hard drive for bad clusters (including the free 
>>>>space). XP's Chkdsk only scans the areas that actually have data in 
>>>>them.  I find this to be a bit stupid...to put it mildly.  I know that 
>>>>Norton Utilities includes a disc scanner, but I don't see any way of 
>>>>purchasing it without buying the entire Norton Systemworks 
>>>>package...which is a form of evil that rivals even Microsoft. Any other 
>>>>suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>> Correct, and it will also mark the bad sectors from use.
>>
>> Pop
>>
>>
>
> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found from 
> personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, freshly re-format 
> it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill it with data, run chkdsk, and 
> it will locate bad sectors that never existed before.

**
Question - I thought that when the disk was formatted that 'something' was 
written to all the sectors during the formatting procedure - therefore there 
IS something to 'check'. Why would one have to write something now in order 
for chkdsk to 'find' the bad sectors?

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***


From MikeE at ster.invalid  Sun Mar 26 18:07:23 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Sun Mar 26 21:10:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e07hcg$tv7$1@news.spamcop.net>

Borgholio wrote:
> I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program,

> Any
> other suggestions?

If you want to read some scary stuff about disk integrity, you should
read some of the 'educational' pages at Steve Gibson's SpinRite
sections.  SpinRite ain't free and it ain't very cheap.

http://www.grc.com/sranalysis.htm  SpinRite's Surface Defect
Detection -- Defects? . . . But Isn't My Drive PERFECT? -- So What's
Wrong With Automatic, Internal, Defect Management? -- Okay,  So How Does
SpinRite Help?  --  SpinRite is THE WORLD'S ONLY Non-
Destructive Surface Defect Analysis Utility!

http://www.grc.com/srphysics.htm  SpinRite Defect Detection
Magnetodynamics - Magnetic Storage Rocket Science -- Searching for "Weak
Bits"  -

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From dws at dealing-with-spam.info  Mon Mar 27 09:34:09 2006
From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S)
Date: Mon Mar 27 02:35:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>

anon wrote on Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:04:25 -0800:

> Question - I thought that when the disk was formatted that 'something' was 
> written to all the sectors during the formatting procedure

In the real world, yes.

What Microsoft calles "formatting", in particular a "quick format", is 
what everyone else calls "creating a filesystem". It assumes that the 
device already *is* formatted and simply writes the stuff at the 
beginning of the disk that defines the filesystem (bootsector, root 
directory, initialised FATs for a FAT filesystem - not sure how NTFS 
works).

A real "format then create filesystem" cycle is achieved by using the 
"/u" option to the format command line. This should detect badblocks.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 27 10:06:11 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 04:10:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <e089vk$bbp$1@news.spamcop.net>


"D-W-S" <dws@dealing-with-spam.info> wrote in message 
news:slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info...
> anon wrote on Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:04:25 -0800:
>
>> Question - I thought that when the disk was formatted that 'something' 
>> was
>> written to all the sectors during the formatting procedure
>
> In the real world, yes.
>
> What Microsoft calles "formatting", in particular a "quick format", is
> what everyone else calls "creating a filesystem". It assumes that the
> device already *is* formatted and simply writes the stuff at the
> beginning of the disk that defines the filesystem (bootsector, root
> directory, initialised FATs for a FAT filesystem - not sure how NTFS
> works).

Actually, "Quick Format" is more like <wipe existing file-system> as the 
disc needs to have been previously formatted in order to be able to do a 
"quick format". What it actually does is reset the MFT so that the disc 
"appears" empty. If you're starting from scratch, a "full" format is the 
only option. A bit similar to removing partitions - it only "appears" to 
wipe the disc (the data is still available with the right tools).

>
> A real "format then create filesystem" cycle is achieved by using the
> "/u" option to the format command line. This should detect badblocks. 

From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 01:17:06 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 04:20:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:

> 
> Erm.... yes it does - that's stage 5:
> 
> "CHKDSK is verifying freespace (stage 5 of 5)...
> Free space verification complete."
> 
> It then goes on to list the results. Here's the full output:
> 
> 
> E:\>chkdsk /r
> The type of the file system is NTFS.
> Volume label is RECOVER.
> 
> CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 5)...
> File verification completed.
> CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 5)...
> Index verification completed.
> CHKDSK is verifying security descriptors (stage 3 of 5)...
> Security descriptor verification completed.
> CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...
> File data verification completed.
> CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...
> Free space verification is complete.
> Windows has checked the file system and found no problem.
> 
>  17567044 KB total disk space.
>   6749860 KB in 6 files.
>        12 KB in 13 indexes.
>         0 KB in bad sectors.
>     66548 KB in use by the system.
>     65536 KB occupied by the log file.
>  10750624 KB available on disk.
> 
>      4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
>   4391761 total allocation units on disk.
>   2687656 allocation units available on disk.
> 

I took that to mean it was verifying the amount of free space.  If it 
was actually looking for bad sectors, why did it never find them until 
data was copied?
> E:\>
From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 01:18:04 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 04:20:09 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e07ejt$rhg$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07ejt$rhg$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08ajb$bo2$2@news.spamcop.net>

POP wrote:
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net...

>>
>>I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you both.  I have found 
>>from personal experience that you can take a damaged drive, 
>>freshly re-format it, run chkdsk, and not find anything.  Fill 
>>it with data, run chkdsk, and it will locate bad sectors that 
>>never existed before.
> 
> 
> Umm, I think I see where you're going with this, and although 
> it's a good point for newbies to realize, you seem to be fishing 
> for an arguement here, not asking for any actual input.  I'm 
> pretty sure you know better from past posts you've made.  Sorry, 
> I've no more to say to you on the subject.
> 
> Pop
> 
> 

I'm not trying to argue, I'm asking for input on which disk scanner is 
best.  You say it's Chkdsk, and I'm simply explaining why I disagree. 
If Chkdsk really did what you claim it does, I wouldn't be here asking 
for an alternative.
From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 01:18:28 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 04:20:13 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08ak3$bo2$3@news.spamcop.net>

anon wrote:
> 

> **
> Question - I thought that when the disk was formatted that 'something' 
> was written to all the sectors during the formatting procedure - 
> therefore there IS something to 'check'. Why would one have to write 
> something now in order for chkdsk to 'find' the bad sectors?
> 

Beats me...yet that's what seems to happen.
From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 01:23:17 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 04:25:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e07hcg$tv7$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e07hcg$tv7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08at5$bo2$4@news.spamcop.net>

Mike Easter wrote:
> Borgholio wrote:
> 
>>I know that XP comes with the Chkdsk program,
> 
> 
>>Any
>>other suggestions?
> 
> 
> If you want to read some scary stuff about disk integrity, you should
> read some of the 'educational' pages at Steve Gibson's SpinRite
> sections.  SpinRite ain't free and it ain't very cheap.
> 
> http://www.grc.com/sranalysis.htm  SpinRite's Surface Defect
> Detection -- Defects? . . . But Isn't My Drive PERFECT? -- So What's
> Wrong With Automatic, Internal, Defect Management? -- Okay,  So How Does
> SpinRite Help?  --  SpinRite is THE WORLD'S ONLY Non-
> Destructive Surface Defect Analysis Utility!
> 
> http://www.grc.com/srphysics.htm  SpinRite Defect Detection
> Magnetodynamics - Magnetic Storage Rocket Science -- Searching for "Weak
> Bits"  -
> 

90 bucks...no kidding it ain't cheap.  Is that the only real option?
From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 01:54:12 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 04:55:31 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net>

D-W-S wrote:
> anon wrote on Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:04:25 -0800:
> 
> 
>>Question - I thought that when the disk was formatted that 'something' was 
>>written to all the sectors during the formatting procedure
> 
> 
> In the real world, yes.
> 
> What Microsoft calles "formatting", in particular a "quick format", is 
> what everyone else calls "creating a filesystem". It assumes that the 
> device already *is* formatted and simply writes the stuff at the 
> beginning of the disk that defines the filesystem (bootsector, root 
> directory, initialised FATs for a FAT filesystem - not sure how NTFS 
> works).
> 
> A real "format then create filesystem" cycle is achieved by using the 
> "/u" option to the format command line. This should detect badblocks.

Format /u isn't listed as a switch in XP's format...but I tried it 
anyway along with /c (which tested existing bad clusters in Windows 9x 
versions of Format).  Both switches went through fine, and format did 
not detect any bad sectors at all.  Running Chkdsk immediately 
afterwards found 32k of bad sectors.  Filling the drive up with data and 
running chkdsk found about 200k of bad sectors.  Obviously, Chkdsk 
doesn't check free space.  *sigh*  SpinRite looks good, but it's 
terribly expensive.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 27 11:10:29 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 05:15:42 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net...

>>
>
> I took that to mean it was verifying the amount of free space.  If it was 
> actually looking for bad sectors, why did it never find them until data 
> was copied?
>> E:\>

Well, when you format the disc the sectors are listed in the MFT (missing 
out any parts of the disc that the HDD firmware has flagged as "bad") so, 
until you actually write data to the disc, chkdsk has no data to check and 
all the sectors are "good". If there are any parts of the disc surface with 
physical defects (as opposed to just corrupted data) the HDD firmware's 
error correction is supposed to prevent the OS from using that portion of 
the disc in any case. When the HDD is on the way out, the error correction 
can no longer cope - and so, the disc becomes un-usable.

So, if you are getting bad sector errors as soon as you add data to the 
disc, I would suspect the HDD of having problems. 

From dws at dealing-with-spam.info  Mon Mar 27 13:07:35 2006
From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S)
Date: Mon Mar 27 06:10:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>

Borgholio wrote on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:54:12 -0800:

> SpinRite looks good, but it's 
> terribly expensive.

A new disk is probably cheaper than $90...
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 27 12:16:05 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 06:20:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <e08hhq$h8b$1@news.spamcop.net>


"D-W-S" <dws@dealing-with-spam.info> wrote in message 
news:slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info...
> Borgholio wrote on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:54:12 -0800:
>
>> SpinRite looks good, but it's
>> terribly expensive.
>
> A new disk is probably cheaper than $90...

Here is a lot of useful information about how HDDs work and error-checking 
and firmware and configuration errors etc.:

http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/comp/hdd/errorsBadSectors-c.html 

From MikeE at ster.invalid  Mon Mar 27 03:27:38 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Mon Mar 27 06:30:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net>

D-W-S wrote:
> Borgholio wrote on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:54:12 -0800:
>
>> SpinRite looks good, but it's
>> terribly expensive.
>
> A new disk is probably cheaper than $90...

I'm not a spinrite salesman, but people use spinrite to check out their
new drives.  And for preventive maintenance.

There's a lot of information at the site.  Here's a par comparing with
scandisk

// How does SpinRite compare to ScanDisk?

SpinRite and ScanDisk are entirely different types of products. ScanDisk
replaces the original DOS CHKDSK command, which verified the logical
file system structure of the hard drive (the newer CHKDSK command no
longer performs that function). Microsoft created ScanDisk because
people were switching off their computers without first exiting Windows.
This resulted in corruption of the file system.

ScanDisk can also perform a read-only "scan" of a drive's surface to
check for any unreadable sectors which it will then remove from use by
the file system. However, ScanDisk does not perform data recovery,
maintenance, or surface analysis of any kind. Unlike SpinRite, it does
no data pattern testing, defect scrubbing, data relocation or unreadable
sector repair and recovery. ScanDisk was never designed to perform those
functions.

If your hard drives are acting up, the best thing to do is to run
SpinRite first (a quick scan at level 2 is fine) to check for and repair
any obvious read-trouble on the drive. Then, knowing that the
"lower-levels" of the drive are okay, run ScanDisk to check and verify
the "higher-levels" of the drive's file system. SpinRite is the best and
only tool for long-term low-level data integrity maintenance, and
ScanDisk is a useful free tool for checking the operating system's file
system at a higher level. //


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From joni_nREMOVE at THIShotmail.com.INVALID  Mon Mar 27 15:41:12 2006
From: joni_nREMOVE at THIShotmail.com.INVALID (Joni Nevalainen)
Date: Mon Mar 27 07:45:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e07hcg$tv7$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e07hcg$tv7$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08mk8$jle$1@news.spamcop.net>

Mike Easter wrote:

> If you want to read some scary stuff about disk integrity, you should
> read some of the 'educational' pages at Steve Gibson's SpinRite
> sections.  SpinRite ain't free and it ain't very cheap.

A bit more digging made me discover this article as well:
http://www.grcsucks.com/spinrite.htm
From avoozl at spamcop.net  Mon Mar 27 05:55:01 2006
From: avoozl at spamcop.net (Chris F. Willoughby)
Date: Mon Mar 27 08:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08qlf$lp0$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net...
> I'm not a spinrite salesman, but people use spinrite to check out their
> new drives.  And for preventive maintenance.
>
> There's a lot of information at the site.  Here's a par comparing with
> scandisk
>
> // How does SpinRite compare to ScanDisk?
>
> SpinRite and ScanDisk are entirely different types of products. ScanDisk
> replaces the original DOS CHKDSK command, which verified the logical
> file system structure of the hard drive (the newer CHKDSK command no
> longer performs that function). Microsoft created ScanDisk because
> people were switching off their computers without first exiting Windows.
> This resulted in corruption of the file system.
>
> ScanDisk can also perform a read-only "scan" of a drive's surface to
> check for any unreadable sectors which it will then remove from use by
> the file system. However, ScanDisk does not perform data recovery,
> maintenance, or surface analysis of any kind. Unlike SpinRite, it does
> no data pattern testing, defect scrubbing, data relocation or unreadable
> sector repair and recovery. ScanDisk was never designed to perform those
> functions.
>
> If your hard drives are acting up, the best thing to do is to run
> SpinRite first (a quick scan at level 2 is fine) to check for and repair
> any obvious read-trouble on the drive. Then, knowing that the
> "lower-levels" of the drive are okay, run ScanDisk to check and verify
> the "higher-levels" of the drive's file system. SpinRite is the best and
> only tool for long-term low-level data integrity maintenance, and
> ScanDisk is a useful free tool for checking the operating system's file
> system at a higher level. //
>
>
> -- 
> Mike Easter
> kibitzer, not SC admin
>

I would say that Ontrack software is another good, but expensive, 
alternative.

Chris


From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 27 15:01:27 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 09:05:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08r7v$m3a$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Mike Easter" <MikeE@ster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net...
>
> SpinRite and ScanDisk are entirely different types of products. ScanDisk
> replaces the original DOS CHKDSK command, which verified the logical
> file system structure of the hard drive (the newer CHKDSK command no
> longer performs that function). Microsoft created ScanDisk because
> people were switching off their computers without first exiting Windows.
> This resulted in corruption of the file system.
>
> ScanDisk can also perform a read-only "scan" of a drive's surface to
> check for any unreadable sectors which it will then remove from use by
> the file system. However, ScanDisk does not perform data recovery,
> maintenance, or surface analysis of any kind. Unlike SpinRite, it does
> no data pattern testing, defect scrubbing, data relocation or unreadable
> sector repair and recovery. ScanDisk was never designed to perform those
> functions.
>
> If your hard drives are acting up, the best thing to do is to run
> SpinRite first (a quick scan at level 2 is fine) to check for and repair
> any obvious read-trouble on the drive. Then, knowing that the
> "lower-levels" of the drive are okay, run ScanDisk to check and verify
> the "higher-levels" of the drive's file system. SpinRite is the best and
> only tool for long-term low-level data integrity maintenance, and
> ScanDisk is a useful free tool for checking the operating system's file
> system at a higher level. //

Mike, here's data that would indicate that SpinRite are not telling the 
whole truth (presumably in order to sell their product). Low Level 
formatting is done by the drive manufacturer and cannot be done by the OS - 
regardless of whether you use the built-in scandisk or any 3rd party utility 
that claims to do otherwise. Any problems at the Low Level cannot be "fixed" 
only the High Level stuff (which scandisk does anyway) so I really can't see 
any advantage (other than it possibly telling you slightly earlier that your 
HDD is fsked and needs replacing).:

<quote>
Hard drive manufacturers have created for modern drives replacements for the 
old LLF utilities. They cause some confusion, because they are often still 
called "low-level format" utilities. The name is incorrect because, again, 
no utility that a user can run on a PC can LLF a modern drive.
</quote>
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/formatUtilities-c.html 

From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Mar 27 15:04:56 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 09:10:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e07hcg$tv7$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08mk8$jle$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e08ref$mau$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Joni Nevalainen" <joni_nREMOVE@THIShotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:e08mk8$jle$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> If you want to read some scary stuff about disk integrity, you should
>> read some of the 'educational' pages at Steve Gibson's SpinRite
>> sections.  SpinRite ain't free and it ain't very cheap.
>
> A bit more digging made me discover this article as well:
> http://www.grcsucks.com/spinrite.htm

Yes. Particularly as you cannot LLF modern drives:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/formatUtilities-c.html 

From MikeE at ster.invalid  Mon Mar 27 08:32:14 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Mon Mar 27 11:35:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08r7v$m3a$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09424$res$1@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:

> Low Level
> formatting is done by the drive manufacturer and cannot be done by
> the OS - regardless of whether you use the built-in scandisk or any
> 3rd party utility that claims to do otherwise. Any problems at the
> Low Level cannot be "fixed" only the High Level stuff (which scandisk
> does anyway) so I really can't see any advantage (other than it
> possibly telling you slightly earlier that your HDD is fsked and
> needs replacing).:
>
> <quote>
> Hard drive manufacturers have created for modern drives replacements
> for the old LLF utilities. They cause some confusion, because they
> are often still called "low-level format" utilities. The name is
> incorrect because, again, no utility that a user can run on a PC can
> LLF a modern drive. </quote>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/formatUtilities-c.html

pcguide is an excellent resource.  When I posted these links in the
beginning, it wasn't my intention to cite snippages from each section
thereof:

Mike Easter wrote:

> If you want to read some scary stuff about disk integrity, you should

> http://www.grc.com/sranalysis.htm  SpinRite's Surface Defect

> http://www.grc.com/srphysics.htm  SpinRite Defect Detection


// Can SpinRite low-level format my IDE, EIDE, or SCSI drive?

No software of any sort can truly low-level format today's modern
drives. The ability to low-level format hard drives was lost back in the
early 1990's when disc surfaces began incorporating factory written
"embedded servo data". If you have a very old drive that can truly be
low-level reformatted, SpinRite v5.0 will do that for you (which all
v6.0 owners are welcome to download and run anytime). But this is only
possible on very old non-servo based MFM and RLL drives with capacities
up to a few hundred megabytes. //  http://www.grc.com/srQ&A.htm


I'm also well aware of John Navas fight with Steve Gibson over spinrite
issues that Joni posted and of other security experts over security and
other issues.

-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From MikeE at ster.invalid  Mon Mar 27 08:46:21 2006
From: MikeE at ster.invalid (Mike Easter)
Date: Mon Mar 27 11:50:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e07hcg$tv7$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08mk8$jle$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e094sj$s07$1@news.spamcop.net>

Joni Nevalainen wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> If you want to read some scary stuff about disk integrity, you should
>> read some of the 'educational' pages at Steve Gibson's SpinRite
>> sections.  SpinRite ain't free and it ain't very cheap.
>
> A bit more digging made me discover this article as well:
> http://www.grcsucks.com/spinrite.htm

If you are going to read John Navas, you should read Gibson's site and
the reviews and testimonials.  This is from a blog discussing Navas vs
Gibson

http://www.gadgetopia.com/post/838

D.R. | December 4, 2003 04:41 PM
// http://grcsucks.com/spinrite.htm

Most of this is refuted by reading the spinrite tech notes:

http://www.grc.com/files/technote.pdf

AND, John Navas produces a competing product ( Cable Modem/DSL Tuning
Guide) to Gibson's Shields Up. Interesting, eh? grcsucks didn't mention
this, that I could see.

Most of Navas' objections to spinrite are indeed about silly promotional
comments about spinrite. Big Deal, all ad copy contains some of this.
But the objections to the technical aspects fall short. It makes me
wonder if Navas has read the tech notes about spinrite.

I may be only a lowly electronics technician, but I do know a little bit
of BS-ing about a competitors product when I see it. I don't know about
shields up, or any of that stuff, but the technote regarding spinrite
seems righteous to me.  //


There are plenty of reviews of spinrite available at grc and elsewhere.
And testimonials.


http://www.kickstartnews.com/reviews/utilities/spinrite_5.html  SpinRite
v5.0 -- Reviewed by: Elizabeth Boston

// While it is running, SpinRite will read and re-write the entire
surface of the drive, reporting everything it finds. By doing this, it
is able to provide early warning of increasing numbers of regions that
are becoming troublesome for the drive. With this warning, you can back
up your data and remove the drive from service before a complete
catastrophe results in loss of any data. If SpinRite is not used until
after a crash, it skillfully picks up all the pieces, recovers your
data, and puts everything back together again.

Since I repair computers and see a fair number of failing hard drives, I
held on to the program long enough to test a few drives that came in. On
several of those drives, SpinRite assured me that the problem was not
with the drive itself. One drive could not be seen by the computer at
all due to hardware failure. And on one drive (that another program had
diagnosed as hopeless), SpinRite not only recovered the data, but when I
ran it a second time using operating level 5, it fixed the bad sectors
and returned them to use. //


-- 
Mike Easter
kibitzer, not SC admin

From vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com  Mon Mar 27 10:18:52 2006
From: vxpy7do02 at sneakemail.com (anon)
Date: Mon Mar 27 13:20:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ak3$bo2$3@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09aah$v6m$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e08ak3$bo2$3@news.spamcop.net...
> anon wrote:
>>
>
>> **
>> Question - I thought that when the disk was formatted that 'something' 
>> was written to all the sectors during the formatting procedure - 
>> therefore there IS something to 'check'. Why would one have to write 
>> something now in order for chkdsk to 'find' the bad sectors?
>>
>
> Beats me...yet that's what seems to happen.

**
There was a later post that explained what was 'put' on the hdd when 
formatted  vs. 'data' which is checked by scandisk.

-- 
A SpamCop user and forum reader,
Not Admin
***

From not at home.today  Mon Mar 27 19:47:09 2006
From: not at home.today (Ant)
Date: Mon Mar 27 13:50:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <e09c1e$bs$1@news.spamcop.net>

"D-W-S" wrote:

> A real "format then create filesystem" cycle is achieved by using the
> "/u" option to the format command line. This should detect badblocks.

The "/u" (unconditional) option is no longer supported but is accepted
for backward compatability. Its purpose was to override the automatic
saving of the FAT so that accidentally formatted disks could be
recovered with the "unformat" command. Using it would save time when
formatting floppies. I'm not sure it was ever relevant for disks with
NTFS.


From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 10:50:11 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 13:50:08 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:
> 
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>>>
>>
>> I took that to mean it was verifying the amount of free space.  If it 
>> was actually looking for bad sectors, why did it never find them until 
>> data was copied?
>>
>>> E:\>
> 
> 
> Well, when you format the disc the sectors are listed in the MFT 
> (missing out any parts of the disc that the HDD firmware has flagged as 
> "bad") so, until you actually write data to the disc, chkdsk has no data 
> to check and all the sectors are "good". If there are any parts of the 
> disc surface with physical defects (as opposed to just corrupted data) 
> the HDD firmware's error correction is supposed to prevent the OS from 
> using that portion of the disc in any case. When the HDD is on the way 
> out, the error correction can no longer cope - and so, the disc becomes 
> un-usable.
> 
> So, if you are getting bad sector errors as soon as you add data to the 
> disc, I would suspect the HDD of having problems.

Yes I've known that the disc had problems for a week now.  :)  That's 
why I need a better program than chkdsk to run a thorough diagnostic.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 28 00:41:49 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 18:45:18 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e09c1e$bs$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09t85$ahg$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Ant" <not@home.today> wrote in message news:e09c1e$bs$1@news.spamcop.net...
> "D-W-S" wrote:
>
>> A real "format then create filesystem" cycle is achieved by using the
>> "/u" option to the format command line. This should detect badblocks.
>
> The "/u" (unconditional) option is no longer supported but is accepted
> for backward compatability. Its purpose was to override the automatic
> saving of the FAT so that accidentally formatted disks could be
> recovered with the "unformat" command. Using it would save time when
> formatting floppies. I'm not sure it was ever relevant for disks with
> NTFS.

And certainly not for modern disks which are LLFed in the factory and cannot 
be LLFed by the user - only partitioned and HLFed. 

From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 28 00:50:06 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 18:55:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Porpoise wrote:
>>
>> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>> news:e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>

>>
>> So, if you are getting bad sector errors as soon as you add data to the 
>> disc, I would suspect the HDD of having problems.
>
> Yes I've known that the disc had problems for a week now.  :)  That's why 
> I need a better program than chkdsk to run a thorough diagnostic.

In that case, you need the utility software from the disc manufacturer 
(which you should be able to download from their website for the specific 
drive). It may (dependant on the manufacturer) include utility to get the 
drive firmware to re-map the bad sectors to spare sectors hidden on the 
drive (if there are any left) and/or write zeros to the entire drive and 
enabling the firmware checks to find the bad sectors and map them to spare 
sectors itself. Other than that, if there are many bad sector errors 
occurring, there's not much you can do other than scrap the drive (drives 
are cheap these days). Certainly a lot cheaper than the time which it would 
take to recover the data from a screwed-up drive. 

From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 15:53:48 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 18:55:10 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09tt5$3h9$1@news.spamcop.net>

Porpoise wrote:
> 
> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
> news:e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net...
> 
>> Porpoise wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net...
>>>
> 
>>>
>>> So, if you are getting bad sector errors as soon as you add data to 
>>> the disc, I would suspect the HDD of having problems.
>>
>>
>> Yes I've known that the disc had problems for a week now.  :)  That's 
>> why I need a better program than chkdsk to run a thorough diagnostic.
> 
> 
> In that case, you need the utility software from the disc manufacturer 
> (which you should be able to download from their website for the 
> specific drive). It may (dependant on the manufacturer) include utility 
> to get the drive firmware to re-map the bad sectors to spare sectors 
> hidden on the drive (if there are any left) and/or write zeros to the 
> entire drive and enabling the firmware checks to find the bad sectors 
> and map them to spare sectors itself. Other than that, if there are many 
> bad sector errors occurring, there's not much you can do other than 
> scrap the drive (drives are cheap these days). Certainly a lot cheaper 
> than the time which it would take to recover the data from a screwed-up 
> drive.

It's a Maxtor external drive, and their diagnostic software doesn't 
cover external drives.  :-/  I'll have to search around their site.
From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar 27 19:07:38 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar 27 19:10:02 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09tt5$3h9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09uqn$bk3$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio"
| >>>
| >>> So, if you are getting bad sector errors as soon as you add data to
| >>> the disc, I would suspect the HDD of having problems.
| >>
| >>
| >> Yes I've known that the disc had problems for a week now.  :)  That's
| >> why I need a better program than chkdsk to run a thorough diagnostic.
| >
| >
| > In that case, you need the utility software from the disc manufacturer
| > (which you should be able to download from their website for the
| > specific drive). It may (dependant on the manufacturer) include utility
| > to get the drive firmware to re-map the bad sectors to spare sectors
| > hidden on the drive (if there are any left) and/or write zeros to the
| > entire drive and enabling the firmware checks to find the bad sectors
| > and map them to spare sectors itself. Other than that, if there are many
| > bad sector errors occurring, there's not much you can do other than
| > scrap the drive (drives are cheap these days). Certainly a lot cheaper
| > than the time which it would take to recover the data from a screwed-up
| > drive.
|
| It's a Maxtor external drive, and their diagnostic software doesn't
| cover external drives.  :-/  I'll have to search around their site.

Open the 'box' likely the HDD is a standard Maxtor you can mount inside your
PC to do the deed.


From borgholio at storymind.com  Mon Mar 27 16:11:52 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Mon Mar 27 19:15:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e09uqn$bk3$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09tt5$3h9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09uqn$bk3$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09uv1$3h9$2@news.spamcop.net>

Frog Prince wrote:
> "Borgholio"
> | >>>
> | >>> So, if you are getting bad sector errors as soon as you add data to
> | >>> the disc, I would suspect the HDD of having problems.
> | >>
> | >>
> | >> Yes I've known that the disc had problems for a week now.  :)  That's
> | >> why I need a better program than chkdsk to run a thorough diagnostic.
> | >
> | >
> | > In that case, you need the utility software from the disc manufacturer
> | > (which you should be able to download from their website for the
> | > specific drive). It may (dependant on the manufacturer) include utility
> | > to get the drive firmware to re-map the bad sectors to spare sectors
> | > hidden on the drive (if there are any left) and/or write zeros to the
> | > entire drive and enabling the firmware checks to find the bad sectors
> | > and map them to spare sectors itself. Other than that, if there are many
> | > bad sector errors occurring, there's not much you can do other than
> | > scrap the drive (drives are cheap these days). Certainly a lot cheaper
> | > than the time which it would take to recover the data from a screwed-up
> | > drive.
> |
> | It's a Maxtor external drive, and their diagnostic software doesn't
> | cover external drives.  :-/  I'll have to search around their site.
> 
> Open the 'box' likely the HDD is a standard Maxtor you can mount inside your
> PC to do the deed.
> 
> 

Yeah actually it was an internal drive to begin with.  Guess I'll have 
to do that.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Mar 28 01:21:14 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Mon Mar 27 19:25:04 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09tt5$3h9$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09vi3$c0k$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio" <borgholio@storymind.com> wrote in message 
news:e09tt5$3h9$1@news.spamcop.net...
> Porpoise wrote:

>
> It's a Maxtor external drive, and their diagnostic software doesn't cover 
> external drives.  :-/  I'll have to search around their site.

You can take it out of the casing and connect it up to the internal IDE 
channel in your PC, if their software doesn't handle a drive connected to 
USB or firewire interfaces (which surprises me).

Actually, just looked on their site and it seems they do have SW for their 
external drives:

http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Maxtor/menuitem.8db0c3d6932ced37294198b091346068/?channelpath=/en_us/Support/Software%20Downloads 

From devnull at spamcop.net  Mon Mar 27 19:14:51 2006
From: devnull at spamcop.net (Frog Prince)
Date: Mon Mar 27 19:25:10 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09tt5$3h9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09uqn$bk3$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09uv1$3h9$2@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e09vla$c5f$1@news.spamcop.net>


"Borgholio"

| > | >>> So, if you are getting bad sector errors as soon as you add data
to
| > | >>> the disc, I would suspect the HDD of having problems.
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> Yes I've known that the disc had problems for a week now.  :)
That's
| > | >> why I need a better program than chkdsk to run a thorough
diagnostic.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > In that case, you need the utility software from the disc
manufacturer
| > | > (which you should be able to download from their website for the
| > | > specific drive). It may (dependant on the manufacturer) include
utility
| > | > to get the drive firmware to re-map the bad sectors to spare sectors
| > | > hidden on the drive (if there are any left) and/or write zeros to
the
| > | > entire drive and enabling the firmware checks to find the bad
sectors
| > | > and map them to spare sectors itself. Other than that, if there are
many
| > | > bad sector errors occurring, there's not much you can do other than
| > | > scrap the drive (drives are cheap these days). Certainly a lot
cheaper
| > | > than the time which it would take to recover the data from a
screwed-up
| > | > drive.
| > |
| > | It's a Maxtor external drive, and their diagnostic software doesn't
| > | cover external drives.  :-/  I'll have to search around their site.
| >
| > Open the 'box' likely the HDD is a standard Maxtor you can mount inside
your
| > PC to do the deed.
| >
| >
|
| Yeah actually it was an internal drive to begin with.  Guess I'll have
| to do that.

I have a lot of Maxtor software and a few dead drives I keep for the
controllers if that would be of any help.


From dws at dealing-with-spam.info  Tue Mar 28 12:53:51 2006
From: dws at dealing-with-spam.info (D-W-S)
Date: Tue Mar 28 05:55:14 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08r7v$m3a$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <slrne2i5dv.r4u.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>

Porpoise wrote on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:01:27 +0100:

> Mike, here's data that would indicate that SpinRite are not telling the 
> whole truth (presumably in order to sell their product). Low Level 
> formatting is done by the drive manufacturer and cannot be done by the OS

Just because Windows can't doesn't mean that other O/S'es can't.

Many PC BIOSes have that built-in too.

From borgholio at storymind.com  Tue Mar 28 09:27:23 2006
From: borgholio at storymind.com (Borgholio)
Date: Tue Mar 28 12:30:03 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <e0be4l$52i$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e074mf$m7l$1@news.spamcop.net> <e075fj$mn8$2@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07965$ono$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08ahi$bo2$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e08dmo$dd5$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09c3v$c0$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09tnm$are$1@news.spamcop.net> <e09tt5$3h9$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e09vi3$c0k$1@news.spamcop.net> <e0be4l$52i$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e0brkd$c3m$1@news.spamcop.net>

Dave Lerner wrote:
> Porpoise wrote on 03/27/2006 07:21 PM:
> 
>>(snip)
>>Actually, just looked on their site and it seems they do have SW for
>>their external drives:
>>
>>http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Maxtor/menuitem.8db0c3d6932ced37294198b091346068/?channelpath=/en_us/Support/Software%20Downloads
> 
> 
> That's interesting.  I hadn't noticed those before.
> 
> I have a Maxtor external drive.  But it's really an internal HD that I
> installed in an inexpensive third-party USB enclosure.  I wonder if
> their utilites would work with that.
> 
> I'm not having any problems with the HD at the moment, I'm just curious.
> 

Nope.  Only works with their pre-built drives.  Didn't detect mine.
From porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Mar 29 00:12:31 2006
From: porpoise1954 at yahoo.co.uk (Porpoise)
Date: Tue Mar 28 18:15:05 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Need disk error checker for Windows XP
References: <e05reh$ueq$1@news.spamcop.net> <e061es$1hd$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e06f5j$99u$1@news.spamcop.net> <e072rs$ktp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e07h7e$tsk$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2f5bh.2udj.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08cn3$cd6$1@news.spamcop.net> <slrne2fhrn.1d0j.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
	<e08i70$hin$1@news.spamcop.net> <e08r7v$m3a$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<slrne2i5dv.r4u.dws@dealing-with-spam.info>
Message-ID: <e0cftj$oqr$1@news.spamcop.net>


"D-W-S" <dws@dealing-with-spam.info> wrote in message 
news:slrne2i5dv.r4u.dws@dealing-with-spam.info...
> Porpoise wrote on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:01:27 +0100:
>
>> Mike, here's data that would indicate that SpinRite are not telling the
>> whole truth (presumably in order to sell their product). Low Level
>> formatting is done by the drive manufacturer and cannot be done by the OS
>
> Just because Windows can't doesn't mean that other O/S'es can't.
>
> Many PC BIOSes have that built-in too.
>

It's not an OS (or BIOS) function - it's done at time of manufacture of the 
drive.


<quote>
Newer disks use many complex internal structures, including zoned bit 
recording to put more sectors on the outer tracks than the inner ones, and 
embedded servo data to control the head actuator. They also transparently 
map out bad sectors. Due to this complexity, all modern hard disks are 
low-level formatted at the factory for the life of the drive. There's no way 
for the PC to do an LLF on a modern IDE/ATA or SCSI hard disk, and there's 
no reason to try to do so.
</quote>

Therefore, the OS in use is irrelevant. See the data via the link below:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/format.htm 

From gotcha at geshel.org  Thu Mar 30 01:16:38 2006
From: gotcha at geshel.org (Neo Geshel)
Date: Thu Mar 30 04:20:32 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Spamcop Web Service?
Message-ID: <e0g7le$706$1@news.spamcop.net>

Is there a web service that I can connect to in terms of spam reporting? 
What about spam submission? If there is nothing now, will there be one 
made available in the future?

I am looking to roll my own implementation of the ?report spam? pages, 
to make them much more performance-orientated and cut out features that 
I have no need nor interest for. Additionally, I would love to implement 
it as an AJAX app on my own server.

The problem is, the only way of reliably doing it without a web service 
is via screen-scraping, which breaks every time a significant change to 
the reporting process is implemented. I would rather not do it via 
screen scraping, so I am curious if a web service is or will be 
available for members.

TIA
...Geshel
-- 
***********************************************************************
* My reply-to is an automatically monitored spam honeypot. Do not use *
* it unless you want to be blacklisted by SpamCop. Please reply to my *
* first name at my last name dot org.                                 *
***********************************************************************
* ?I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer   *
*  god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other *
*  possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.?           *
*  - Stephen F. Roberts                                               *
***********************************************************************
* ?Anyone who believes in Intelligent Design (?creationism?) is just  *
*  as ignorant, irrational and ill-educated as someone who believes   *
*  that the world is a flat disc, that the Sun circles the Earth or   *
*  that there really is a tooth fairy. Darwinism has an overwhelming  *
*  foundation of evidence that can be tested and reproduced.          *
*								      *
* ?Intelligent Design, on the other hand, has no evidence at all; not *
*  one single shred of testable proof. As such, Intelligent Design is *
*  Religious Mythology, and has no right whatsoever to be in our      *
*  Science classrooms.? - 99.99+% of Scientists			      *
***********************************************************************
Mignon McLaughlin once said that ?A nymphomaniac is a woman [who is] as 
obsessed with sex as the average man.? Unfortunately, since true 
nymphomaniacs are so rare, this means that it takes an extraordinary 
woman to keep up with an ordinary man.
***********************************************************************
From nobody at devnull.spamcop.net  Thu Mar 30 16:38:29 2006
From: nobody at devnull.spamcop.net (Anonymous)
Date: Thu Mar 30 19:40:23 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Spamcop Web Service?
References: <e0g7le$706$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e0htm1$8gp$1@news.spamcop.net>


Neo Geshel wrote...

Is there a web service that I can connect to in terms of spam reporting?
What about spam submission? If there is nothing now, will there be one
made available in the future?

I am looking to roll my own implementation of the "report spam" pages,
to make them much more performance-orientated and cut out features that
I have no need nor interest for. Additionally, I would love to implement
it as an AJAX app on my own server.

The problem is, the only way of reliably doing it without a web service
is via screen-scraping, which breaks every time a significant change to
the reporting process is implemented. I would rather not do it via
screen scraping, so I am curious if a web service is or will be
available for members.

I am just a user, not an admin, but I would guess that Spamcop wishes
to retain full control of what gets reported and what the reporter sees
while doing it, and that avoiding false reports is a lot more important
than "performance" (which I assume means "report many spams very
quickly").

I went through the same thinking at first, because I get a lot of spam
and no (almost no?) ham on one address and would like to bulk-report
it, but I came to realize that spamcop has spamtraps that do exactly
that without the risk of a false report that I would be causing if I bulk
reported or even sped up my reporting and spent less time eying each
spam.  I decided that the best way for me to contribute my effort is to
report the very freshest spam that I see, and to take the time to verify
that every report I send is a report of real spam.  I think Spamcop
needs quality  a lot more than it needs quantity; they can get more
spam any time they wish by setting up more spamtraps.

-- 
G.M.


 


From gotcha at geshel.org  Thu Mar 30 19:23:37 2006
From: gotcha at geshel.org (Neo Geshel)
Date: Thu Mar 30 22:25:20 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Spamcop Web Service?
In-Reply-To: <e0htm1$8gp$1@news.spamcop.net>
References: <e0g7le$706$1@news.spamcop.net> <e0htm1$8gp$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e0i7bq$dt2$1@news.spamcop.net>

Anonymous wrote:
> Neo Geshel wrote...
> >
> > Is there a web service that I can connect to in terms of spam reporting?
> > What about spam submission? If there is nothing now, will there be one
> > made available in the future?
> >
> > I am looking to roll my own implementation of the ?report spam? pages,
> > to make them much more performance-orientated and cut out features that
> > I have no need nor interest for. Additionally, I would love to implement
> > it as an AJAX app on my own server.
> >
> > The problem is, the only way of reliably doing it without a web service
> > is via screen-scraping, which breaks every time a significant change to
> > the reporting process is implemented. I would rather not do it via
> > screen scraping, so I am curious if a web service is or will be
> > available for members.
> 
> I am just a user, not an admin, but I would guess that Spamcop wishes
> to retain full control of what gets reported and what the reporter sees
> while doing it, and that avoiding false reports is a lot more important
> than "performance" (which I assume means "report many spams very
> quickly").
> 
> I went through the same thinking at first, because I get a lot of spam
> and no (almost no?) ham on one address and would like to bulk-report
> it, but I came to realize that spamcop has spamtraps that do exactly
> that without the risk of a false report that I would be causing if I bulk
> reported or even sped up my reporting and spent less time eying each
> spam.  I decided that the best way for me to contribute my effort is to
> report the very freshest spam that I see, and to take the time to verify
> that every report I send is a report of real spam.  I think Spamcop
> needs quality  a lot more than it needs quantity; they can get more
> spam any time they wish by setting up more spamtraps.
> 

The point is, I do all of my spam ?submission? through a program called 
MailWasher. That is the easy part. However, the next step is to visit 
the site and click on the ?unreported spam saved? link. I catch spam 
through about 20 separate e-mail accounts, which can amount to a rather 
large amount of spam per day.

What I *don?t* need, is all of the superfluous information and extra 
text boxes that the on-site spam reporting methods provide the end user 
with. All I really need is the two or three lines showing the content of 
the spam (which also asks the user to make sure it really is spam), the 
list of e-mail addys that it will report to, and the ?submit report? 
button. I don?t need the (often) 200+ lines of detailed spam-parsing 
info (which still comes up, even if you turn it off in the options), nor 
do I need any of the form textareas that allow you to add additional 
comments to the outgoing spam reports. And finally, I do not need the 
summary page that shows me where reports were sent - I would rather the 
page just default to the next piece of unreported spam in the queue.

The only way I know around this is by customizing my own spam reporting 
pages (which would be hosted on my own server), that would screen scrape 
for any ?unreported spam saved? links on the submission page, and parse 
those pages for *only* the basic information that I need. The easiest 
way would be via a web service making use of SOAP or XMLHTTP. The other 
option would be screen scraping, which would break whenever the layout 
of the critical content that is being searched for changes.

TIA.
...Geshel
-- 
***********************************************************************
* My reply-to is an automatically monitored spam honeypot. Do not use *
* it unless you want to be blacklisted by SpamCop. Please reply to my *
* first name at my last name dot org.                                 *
***********************************************************************
* ?I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer   *
*  god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other *
*  possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.?           *
*  - Stephen F. Roberts                                               *
***********************************************************************
* ?Anyone who believes in Intelligent Design (?creationism?) is just  *
*  as ignorant, irrational and ill-educated as someone who believes   *
*  that the world is a flat disc, that the Sun circles the Earth or   *
*  that there really is a tooth fairy. Darwinism has an overwhelming  *
*  foundation of evidence that can be tested and reproduced.          *
*								      *
* ?Intelligent Design, on the other hand, has no evidence at all; not *
*  one single shred of testable proof. As such, Intelligent Design is *
*  Religious Mythology, and has no right whatsoever to be in our      *
*  Science classrooms.? - 99.99+% of Scientists			      *
***********************************************************************
Mignon McLaughlin once said that ?A nymphomaniac is a woman [who is] as 
obsessed with sex as the average man.? Unfortunately, since true 
nymphomaniacs are so rare, this means that it takes an extraordinary 
woman to keep up with an ordinary man.
***********************************************************************
From BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com  Fri Mar 31 11:33:29 2006
From: BNRAGMAOKKXT at spammotel.com (Canopus)
Date: Fri Mar 31 06:35:25 2006
Subject: [SpamCop-Geeks] Re: Spamcop Web Service?
References: <e0g7le$706$1@news.spamcop.net> <e0htm1$8gp$1@news.spamcop.net>
	<e0i7bq$dt2$1@news.spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <e0j429$tke$1@news.spamcop.net>

Neo Geshel on 31/03/2006 wrote:

>What I don???t need, is all of the superfluous information and extra
>text boxes that the on-site spam reporting methods provide the end user
>with. All I really need is the two or three lines showing the content of
>the spam (which also asks the user to make sure it really is spam), the
>list of e-mail addys that it will report to, and the ???submit 
>report???
>button. I don???t need the (often) 200+ lines of detailed spam-parsing
>info (which still comes up, even if you turn it off in the options), nor
>do I need any of the form textareas that allow you to add additional
>comments to the outgoing spam reports.

Perhaps you should mail Admin and ask them to allow you to set up Quick 
Reporting.  If you have a good record of no or very little false reporting 
and you set up and register your Mail Hosts then quich reporting may be 
turned on for you.  Once done, everything you submit through MailWasher 
will be automatically reported and you will receive a summary of the 
reports taking up a few lines each in the report.

-- 
Rob

http://www.flickr.com/photos/c