[SpamCop-List] Re: OT SPEWS questions
Thu Feb 20 02:03:34 EST 2003
I am not quoting anything from you, but not because I don't think it
contributes to the discussion. IMHO, it is very important that the Internet
be truly international. Language is a problem. But perhaps there will be a
pidgin/jargon (like the IMHO above) that will evolve. If not, then it will
be the language that is most common (which, unfortunately, is English at the
present time. Unfortunately, because it is so much more complicated than
many other languages.). IMHO, there isn't much one can do about that - it
happens, like the weather.
OTOH (another jargon meaning On the Other Hand) the Internet can be a place
of unity where only common sense and good will prevail - that is netiquette.
I almost could translate Tony's reply to you, but if I wanted I could try
babelfish. And myself, I have no problem if you and Tony want to continue
this conversation in French on the ng. As I said, I could go to babelfish
or I could just assume that you were discussing spam problems (or privacy
problems in this case). I don't know why you would need to go somewhere
else. And if I wanted to contribute, I would have to brush up on my French
or hope that you understood English. There have often been times that I
wish a poster could be answered in his own language and I don't see why it
can't be intermingled with English posts.
And there is absolutely no reason why servers who speak another kind of
language can't talk to each other. And why they can't decide on protocols
that are mutually beneficial.
As for your problems with eBay and PayPal, I agree that both are very much
borderline in their marketing tactics. You mentioned an eBay France which
means that the marketing is international. Did you ever read a science
fiction story where instead of wars, there are meetings of businessmen who
"negotiate"? In fact, there are historians who think that all history is
economically driven. It might not be a BadThing for the Internet to be
successful across international lines.
Miss Betsy, an almost new spamcop user
Miss Betsy, an almost new spamcop user
"Philippe Verdy" <verdy_p> wrote in message
I did not say that no French can speak or learn English. But even if it does
so, he won't be able to follow the complex and large volume of discussion
related to problems that only concern US citizens, and US-to-US legal issues
that have no translation in other countries.
There's a better way by helping other countries promote local or regional
groups discussing about issued related to their own area. For the rest,
there will be much enough people to make the transition between each group.
What would happen if you saw a lot of antispam contributers discuss in this
group using their own language? You would ban them and in fact I see that
you have discarded my opinion, and just posted a small part of what I said,
only the first paragraph, discarding the rest.
(I spoke about the eBay/PayPal merging process, and the issue it caused to
my personal information: thanks, I had not renewed my account on PayPal with
my old credit card, expired a few months before when this merge occured, as
PayPal also "lost" its subscribers personnal data and garbled it, so I had
not to pay a first renewal of service, for something that I had already paid
in the past and that they had already lost from their files, i.e. the
initial subscription fee that was paid but never serviced because of their
ignorance of international bank routing)...
You may consider this is unrelated to spam, but this is a breach of privacy,
and I was sent unsollicited ads from eBay "partners" despite I had never
used eBay before (I had to opt-out explicitly, but first I had to renew my
account, and they wanted me to pay for a new subscription to access my old
PayPal account, or to subscribe to eBay and then accept to opt-in for other
eBay has invented the concept of paying for opting out... I have complained
this to my ISP, and contacted a consumer association in France to help me
opting out (for free) from PayPal offers by forcing eBay France to obey to
the French legislation that forbids merging files without user consent, and
which gives a free access right to our personal data... So I could
unsubscribe from eBay US after contacting eBay France, that I had not
This is an example where a pure US-based solution will not help users, and
that shows that local groups can also help protect users privacy. Don't
consider that there's no right out of US. The laws are different, but they
offer other solutions too... If I had used only English to discuss this
problem in a SPEWS group, I would not have been listened...
SPEWS offers little help and no protection to users outside US...
"Mike Easter" <MikeE> a écrit dans le message de news:
> Philippe Verdy wrote:
> > I have also the same feeling: the Internet is global, but its FAQ are
> > discussed and well understood only in English. This raises another
> > issue: who will conduct the translation of the policies so that it
> > becomes understandable worldwide and accetable by users all over the
> > world ?
> Most countries of the world are bi- or multi- lingual. In spite of
> numerous efforts to try to create a sensible universal common language
> such as esperanto and a myriad of others, the one language which has
> gained the most ground just from expanding usage in this modern world of
> internationalization is "English" or some derivation thereof - American
> English etc -
> -- Mike Easter
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